May 12: Simon has a radical idea and Gerald lives

Beate

Hallo!

John

hello?

i thought we moved this to 12 Beate? lol

Beate

Did we? Didn’t simon say keep it at the same time?

Maybe we didn’t

Maybe I’ve just made myself a fresh cup of shipped-from-oslo coffee half an hour early

*30 minutes later*

Beate

Nå da?

John

YES! Simon is just wrapping up his show

But I think we can get started. he can take a breath and join us

Beate

yep, Jen has to leave in 30 so let’s get started 🙂

John

clicks record button. CLICK!

Good afternoon lobster friends

Beate

Can’t believe you still believe you have any say over when this thing starts recording

Jen

Hello hello!

John

Since I was hosting today – i thought i would pivot away from what everyone seems to be talking about ALL THE TIME

Beate

Norway Day on May 17th you mean?

Fiscal year end?

John

which is course is how miserable we are from COVID-19

Beate

The weather?

John

lol

Simon

So sorry!

Jen

Hey Simon! GREAT show today

I was sobbing listening to Nicki and her make a wish story!

John

No… I thought the 4 of us could pull out our crystal balls and talk about the one or two things we think will be the big changes that will come to our sector after this is over… we all have our corners of expertise… so

Beate? Simon? Jen?

Simon

Great idea

Jen

🔮

Beate

Hm. The one thing I think, which has nothing to do with my expertise or our sector, is that a lot more sectors will ask rather than sell

I think they find it works better

Like artists

Jen

Well said — ask rather than sell!

John

how do you mean Beate?

Beate

Now they’ve been forced to try it out and found that people respond better and generosity feels good

Jen

Reminds me of Amanda Palmer… #legend

Simon

From Twin Peaks?

Beate

I mean all those artists who have now had living room concerts streamed while asking people to donate if they wish, rather than sell tickets.

John

man… so i can donate $30 and watch coldplay play in their studio from the comfort of my counch – in HD and 7.1 sound? brilliant

Beate

Yeah!

And I can still take part even if I can’t afford that $30.

Simon

You’re not going to like my answer. I think it’s the beginning of the end for charity

Beate

ho?

no

how?

Simon

Just a total shift in how money works, how services are provided and how wealth is distrubuted

Simon

go on simon

Simon

I guess charities will exist…but to implement services paid for by state

Fundraising will die out because it’s a ridiculous concept

Beate

So basically becoming norwegian?

Jen

I was JUST about to say this.

Simon

More Norwegian than the Norwegians

John

OOF – read the fucking room simon.

Simon

Charity is beautiful. And giving is beautiful

But Americans raising money to pay for their healthcare is diabolical

Beate

Yeah, that’s true

John

Agreed

Beate

Charities shouldn’t be a part of basic infrastrucutre

or fundraising

Simon

The fact that pretty much any charity exists is a disgrace. And I dont think we’ll have the tolerance for this system after that

John

oh man

Jen

I think one of the major things being exposed is that billionaires are not going to save us. Big philanthropy is cancelled. Tax billionaires more instead

Beate

yeeees!!!

John

imagine

Beate

Trickle down is dead for good

should be, at least

Jen

I also recognize my epic privilege in this discussion given the family dynasty that I am part of.

John

so the world is going to turn into a socialist state?

Beate

Like I said on twitter when this whole thing started, I am so happy to pay my taxes right now.

Because it now pays for keeping about half a million jobs open for when we return to normal

Simon

Haha this billionaire stuff is such a joke

Like wow so generous

Motherfuckers there’s kids dying from no water

That was already happening

Chop chop

Jen

Imagine! Airline bailouts for Richard Branson. Amazon/Bezos asking employees to donate sick time… corruption through and through

Beate

THAT AMAZON THING HAS ME SO ENRAGED!!!

The fucking nerve!!

To ask NORMAL PEOPLE to donate towards your employees sick leave, when you can easily pay for it yourself and still have billions of dollars left?? The fucking nerve I say!!

💪💪💪

Simon

Totally! How can we go back to the way things were after this kind of stuff?

John

Imagine

Simon

Socialism maybe. Maybe try communism again. Maybe something new

One idea I have is that everyone can have anything they want. But they have to queue for it

Like you can have a 6 million dollar yacht but get on the waiting list

Beate

Hahaha

John

now that’s an interesting idea

Jen

All lottery system all the time…that’s actually how some of the best real estate in Toronto works

Simon

Lottery is a great idea

For food

Beate

Now we’re moving beyond Norway and into communism, just flagging it

Simon

“What’s for dinner tonight?”

“Fuck knows”

Jen

“get in line, kids”

Simon

Yeh Norway doesn’t go far enough for me

Beate

“I don’t know what’s for dinner, how long do you want to queue?”

Simon

Yeh exacltly! I can make you a peanut butter sandwich right now or pizza delivery in 8 hours

John

this is a brilliant idea

because

now it all becomes about time

not money

Simon

Exactly!

Beate

But time has no meaning any more

Simon

The true equaliser

Money is never an equaliser

But we’ll all die

John

🤯

Simon

Anyway I’m just thinking out loud. I’m tired

John

Ok

fuck

i was just going to talk about direct mail

Beate

Hahahah

We should have let you go first

John

no – im glad i didnt

this is way more interesting

Beate

Hopefully your tragically outdated system of paying with CHEQUES will die out

Simon

Haha

John

everyone has been saying direct mail is dead for 20 years now

i think

its safe to say an org that

doesnt close it’s dooors after this had better be reviewing their access to donor data and their online priocesses

ive heard

Beate

what do you mean?

access to donor data?

John

a stat that says potentially 75% of all resturants may be shuttered if this goes on much longer…. here in Canada

Beate

also your message structure is an absolute mess

Is it to avoid the appearance of slow typing?

reads like a fucking haiku

John

Sheesh

Jen

I would also think we will all be side-eying why we need to go and work in shitty old buildings under blinding fluorescent lights to do our jobs as fundraisers.

Simon

Yeh surely the office environment is clearly dated now

The perma-office, anyway

Beate

I can not WAIT to go back to an office, seriously, I miss it so much. People❤ Noise❤ Hugs❤

John

i mean – there are fundraisers at hoime right now who cant even access their donors data – not phone, not email not mail

so i was going to ask – can we imagine a scenerio where 75% of charities go under – out of business

Simon

I think we’re all going to know one or many charities that can’t survive this. It’s going to be really sad

Jen

Or merge

Simon

And scale back

Jen

I could see much more of a focus on collective impact…donors might not be loyal to charities as much as to causes… know what I mean?

Beate

Yeah, somehow I think replacing lost revenue in gift is going to be a harder sell than replacing lost revenue in sales

from a government, I mean.

Simon

Oof

Yeh

Jen

I also hope that what stays is vulnerability being a new currency in fundraising

has to be honest, authentic and come from a place of empathy and gratitude…

Beate

One good thing though:

It’s MUCH easier to remote work when everyone does it!

Though I don’t know if it will last when we’re back to most people being in the room again.

Jen

This is another whole rabbit hole here too. Who was never really in the room in the first place and how can we get them there? More women, more people of colour, more gender diverse folks…

Beate

Yeah, that’s true. And imagine all the participation from those who can’t leave their homes.

So many concerts, shows, stand-ups – all those things they can now enjoy

I hope we keep that

John

there are so many big ideas to unpack here

time and accessiblilty

not money and exclusivity

Jen

nice nutshell john!

Beate

so good

John

i know jen has to bounce shortly

and i need to eat betwen calls

and i know we could chat about this all day

i have a quick story and fact

to close us out for now

Simon

Yesssss

Jen

story time and fact time!

John

ok

and this is 100% true

here in waterdown where i live… outside of toronto… at our grocery store, we had a MONSTER lobster come in – to be sold…

he was over 8lbs

the folks at the grocery store named him Gerald

most of the lobsters are about 1.25lb or 1.5lb

Jen

Yes! I remember the Gerald!

Another legend!

John

a few people took notice and two camps/team emerged.

TEAM EAT and TEAM SAVE…(I was on team eat… obvi)

So TEAM SAVE crowd sourced enough money to buy him before TEAM EAT did and saved GERALD the lobster..

and drove him down the road to retire at the Ripley’s aquarium in TORONTO where he still lives today…

Jen

OH MAN I NEVER KNEW THE END OF THAT STORY!!!!!!

Beate

how much is 8 lbs? What approximately weighs the same? Just so I can imagine since us metrics don’t know what that means

Simon

What’s a lb?

Oh 3.6 kilo

That’s like 3.6 bags of kilo sugar

Beate

Ah, an average newborn!

John

yup

Beate

Wow, that is a giant fucking lobster

John

Here’s Gerald at the aquarium:

A very big lobster sits in an aquarium tank.

John

the whole story is here:

John

HE WAS A MONSTER

Beate

Don’t say that

poor gerald

John

he would have been fucking delicious

Beate

I wish there was some kind of size indicator in that photo

John

so there you go

thanks for this RAPID FIRE chat today… maybe we can unpack it a bit more next week

Beate

Norway is opening back up again now, I’ll let you know how life is on the outside🙌🏼

Simon

It feels like we’re all really busy despite lockdown!

Beate

Big hugs❤

(i miss hugs!)

April 28: Return of the Jedi Typer Font of Knowledge Mark Phillips

*Beate Sørum added Mark Phillips to the chat*

Mark

speeeedy, speedy typing

come on. Let’s go

Beate

OK! Hello lobsters!

And welcome back Mark!

How is everyone?

John

do we really want to speak time unpacking that?

Mark

I’m very well thankyou

Simon

Hi

Beate

speak time go fast

Mark

Boris – have delivered a new child to continue the Johnson dynasty. We are celebrating

Jen

Wow. Bossy Bea in full effect! Move along, pillow people

Beate

That wasn’t bossy bea!

That was making fun of johns typo’s bra

bea

fuck

that backfired

John

lol

Beate

anyway. I invited mark back today!

John

well we are off to a flying start here.

hi mark

Jen

Yay! Welcome back Mark!

Mark

Number one, because he’s funny and so far our most popular guest by reading numbers!

Mark

and I feel so excited to be allowed back in the lobster pot!

I’m laden with lobster facts

Beate

And two: He has some new research on donors done post corona shit fan hitting

Also three, he’s laden with lobsters facts

But let’s start with your donor research – kick us off, mark!

Mark

Yep. Was debriefed on the most recent study late last night

Jen

This has already exceeded my expectations. Mark is typing on time!

John

#imagine

Jen

GIve us the straight dope, Phillips

Mark

Ok. Key fact. The total weirdness of the last month has started to calm down a little.

Beate

(last two months for those of us without asshole science denying nation leaders, but go on)

Mark

People have started to expect the new ways of working and living as the new normal.

Beate

That’s depressing?

Mark

They feel they have more control. But they also feel that other areas of life – might need to change in order to reflect this new order – and that relates to giving to charity.

Jen

Ok, nodding along so far… Mark, maybe at some point, for the gearheads in the chatcast, can you break down how this research was done… because someone’s gonna ask… ❤️

*Mark is typing*

John

🧐

Beate

Thank god typing speed is up because this is still taking its sweet time

Mark

This is a qualitative study. We have been speaking to donors since early March about how Coronavirus has impacted on their attitude to giving. This isn’t a. Survey. we hold long, hour long conversations about their lives and the role charities have in this new world.

Jen

Roger that. Thanks Mark!

Mark

Number one – and this is in the UK – people still don’t think they are being asked very much.

Beate

wow, for the UK that’s really something!

Simon

All the direct asking seems to have disappeared

There’s broad social asks out there but not much specific

Mark

By charities.

But they are by being asked. By friends . Peer to peer asks.

Simon

Interesting

Jen

Similar feeling here in Canada

Simon

For specific causes or very crowdfunder stuff?

Like personal causes

Mark

The fact that charities haven’t been asking has created a vacuum. And people have filled that themselves.

Jen

ooouuff

Mark

Crowdfunding stuff. People doing their own private’s fundraisers. Captain Tom Moore a 100 year old army vet walked up and down his garden 100 times and raised almost £30 million.

Beate

That is such an insane amount of money to raise!

Captain Tom, man. What a way to create a legacy before going out

John

Here’s Tom:

Jen

Captain Tom for PM!

Beate

So how do people feel towards charities?

Mark

People are very, very pro charities. Particularly those that are relevant to the situation. A cancer helpline, an animal sanctuary, nurses, medical research. If it is relevant. It is important.

Private fundraisers have exploded in the UK. We cancelled teh London marathon and people have adopted the 2.6 challenge. it’s been massive.

Coronavirus has seen the return of the citizen fundraiser.

Jen

LOVE THIS!

Simon

What would you say aren’t releveant now?

Beate

That’s one of humanity’s saving graces, most of us DO respond with generosity and kindness in tough times

Mark

Charities that speak about their needs aren’t relevant. So many companies are in trouble that people don’t think charities are a Special case.

One donor expressed it “if that charity closes, the staff can go and work for another charity. If teh need is still there, they can work for a better run charity.”

John

OOF

Jen

Wow…from the mouths of donors/babes

Mark

Tha citizen fundraiser is massive.

Beate

So those “our funding has fallen away”-appeals aren’t seen as relevant you mean?

Mark

Charities are delivering the service. People who care are delivering the money – without necessarily being asked.

Not unless it is a very specific cause – a care home, a hospice, or even a small animal sanctuary can do that because they have a specific constituency. If you are a general service organisation – perhaps doing what a number of other charities are doing in you locality – then that isn’t going to help.

Beate

I see.

So what would you say is the biggest learning point for charities from this research?

Mark

People also want to say thank you to staff.

John

like community foundations?

Mark

Front line staff.

Beate

Jen

🎢

Mark

If staff are in harms way, people really value that. They know charity staff are poorly paid and ant to say thank you.

Beate

That’s really nice

Mark

Some of our biggest fundraisers in the UK have been to buy staff dinner! It is not dissimilar to a TIp. It’s to show appreciation and thank. Quite amazing really. People would rather £50 was given directly to a staff member than go into coffers.

Self-promotion is seen as poor form. This is not the time for a flash rebrand.

Beate

No time is the time for that

John

lol. good one.

Mark

You got it!

Beate

Is that why we’re seeing all these citizen fundraisers you think?

Because of the need to thank, I mean?

Mark

Yes. – and because charities haven’t asked. People still don’t feel like charities really need their money. Because they are not asking

Jen

Random question: Is Giving Tuesday Now part of the UK/Euro/Scanda plans?

Beate

Yes

Mark

Yep – it’s starting to catch on.

Beate

Well, it’s *there*. i don’t know how much planning there is around it yes.

Mark

Still quite small though. And mainly around social media. The traditional philanthropic generation won’t really have picked up on it.

One of the reasons people like citizen fundraisers is they are free of political or commercial baggage.

Beate

Depends wether charity staff have the time and head space to come up with something for it, no shortage of work while figuring out how to do your whole job from home and creating emergency appeals..

Mark

Its so easy to give to a veteran.

Jen

I wonder how some of the influence of GT Now, plus emphasis on digital because it’s fast, cheap and “safe” delivery, whether there will be a pick up or change or at least something to reflect on…

Mark

We are seeing a massive boost in online giving in the UK. One of the new rules is that it is OK to give online.

The other element that is attractive is the concept of considered uncertainty

Jen

“Considered uncertainty” what now?

Beate

You’re going to have to explain that one..

Considered uncertainty refers to the fact that things are changing so fast, you are not expected to know the answers. In fact it is good to say, “we don’t know, but this is what we are doing.”

Beate

So Mark, did people talk about economic insecurity at all?

Are people worried for their own finances I mean?

Mark

Yes. The people who are economically scared are cancelling direct debits and monthly gifts

They don’t want to, but have no alternative. What was interesting was that they did not stop giving. They were still giving to citizen fundraisers that they knew.

they were moving from automated giving, to giving that was more controlled and offered greater social capital.

Beate

So still giving when emotionally moved, imagine that

😄

Almost as if the amount of money you have to spare really is not a deciding factor in wether or not people give!

Mark

Yes – they might just be giving £5 – but they were giving even though they had been economically hit. What was interesting was that people who had not been economically hit were also considering cancellations.

Beate

In anticipation of being economically hit?

Mark

No. They are reappraising their portfolios. Charities they don’t fit with the new way of life will be removed. Those with less need, those who aren’t asking, those who don’t offer value.

We think there’s ill be a second wave of cancellations that go beyond the financial cancellations. People are recognising that old loyalties don’t have to be adhered to. New rules again!

Beate

Yeah. I think you’ll have to prove that you are handling the crisis well (not just freezing and waiting for it to pass) and being proactive and ready to change

and effective in spending people’s moey

Mark

There is a simple equation. Don’t ask = don’t need.

Beate

True

Jen

#trifecta

Beate

Alright. We’re approaching our half hour mark. Mark, what would you say is the most important actions charities should be taking right now? your top three pieces of advice based on this research?

Mark

people want to show what tribe they belong to. they want to be seen as the good guys. Charities can help. What will be interesting is how this will impact on other areas such as the environment and social justice. There MAY be ongoing changes.

Beate

how so?

Mark

1. Show staff who are doing the work. 2. Demonstrate humanity – be authentic and honest – even if you don’t know. This is about what WE are doing as much as it is about what the donor – YOU – are doing. It’s weird, but I’m putting more WE in our copy. That the you and me WE. Not the us in the charity WE.

The We thing is number 3

Are we done? have you all just left me? Have I bored you all to death?

Beate

We are here!

John

LOL

Simon

Sorry just starting webinar!

Jen

Here…reading and digesting… this chat and my lunch

John

Same.

Mark

Also – badges and stickers are great ideas at the moment. It shows who and what you believe in.

John

STICKERS!!!!

Jen

I’m feeling this in my writing too, Mark.

Beate

I had to go over that third tip a few times to make sure I read it right

Jen

Like Simon

Simon

lol

Jen

(would have been better if said “get it right” but I’ll take it

John

evertyone should be doing stickers!

thanks for sharing that mark

Mark

No worries. Trying to get it written up properly, but this is the first dump of insight!

Jen

We appreciate the inside look…

❤️

Mark

You got it!

Beate

Will you be revising your free templates to reflect this in any way? Just curious how much it should change your copy

Mark

Yep. We need to look at those.

Beate

So mark, did you want the honour of sharing a lobster fact today?

Or was “I’m laden with lobster facts” a wild exaggeration to fit in?

Jen

imagine!

John

haha

Beate

IF you quickly go to our list of already used facts, you can copy one of those like John always does

John

🤬

Mark

Yep. Pin back your lug ‘oles

Jen

WTF?

Beate

Not sure what part of my anatomy that is, but I’m…listening..?

Mark

being a Lobster fisherman is one of the most dangerous professions in the world.

John

tha’ts it?

Mark

yep. amazing. wrote a leaflet on it once.

Beate

hahaha!

And is that all you remember from the leaflet?

Mark

always like giving you guys a treat!

John

LOL

Jen

I think Lobster fishers who are women are way smarter and safer

Mark

They probably are!

John

oh boy.

Beate

ok. Well. I think we’re done then, with that sligthly anticlimactic lobster fact!

John

sigh.

Beate

Thanks for coming back and typing much faster, mark!

Mark

No worries. Thanks. I’m back to the grindstone now. Take care and stay safe. Xxx

John

thanks mark!!!

Beate

You too❤

Jen

Good luck with your stickers!

Mark

“The women doing Canada’s most dangerous job fishing”:

Jen

🇨🇦🦞👩🏼‍🦰💪

Some resources from Bluefrog and Mark – watch his blog for a full write-up of the research findings!

March 31: Silver foxes and vulnerability in fundraising

*Jen Love added Steven Screen to the chat.*

Jen

tap tap tap….added my man Steven Screen ❤

Simon

Hello Mr Screen

Steven

Hello Simon!

Thanks for having me on.

Simon

We love ya!

You managing through all this?

Steven

Yup. It’s hard, but weirdly satisfying too – it’s wonderful to be so helpful to orgs right now.

Jen

How is island life with small children during a global pandemic, Steven?

Steven

Island life is great. Distance from the big outbreak in the city is lovely. Just the challenges of homeschooling three little ones!

You and yours?

Jen

My teenagers are getting dumber by the minute with endless vids… Luckily they are beautiful, bright, white and rich so in the long run we’ll still be fine. Soooo feeling my privilege right now

Simon

All grand here. Managing! Some things really good and some a bummer

Steven

So do you guys do this whole thing via your phones?

Jen

#gongshow

Simon

We recommend laptop but I’m prob gonna be on my phone today

Jen

Ooooh Steven you lucky earlybird… sometimes we don’t tell our guests this but it is a million times easier if you use the laptop version

Simon

Generally whoever is on their phone gets lambasted by the others for being slow

Steven

OK, so how do I do this on a laptop?

John

Just press any key

Screenshot gif of Homer Simpson trying to find the 'any' key on a keyboard

John

PERFECT JOHN

Steven

Downloading now. But I can’t find the any key.

This is being typed exponentially faster from my computer.

John

Kermit the frog typing really fast on a typewriter

Simon

Right?

Jen

So now when you look back at the other chats you can tell who knew (Lesley) and who didn’t (Mark)

Steven

I’m going to take my President’s approach and say that everything that happened before I got here was done very poorly, just a tragedy really, and the laud myself for doing just a very fantastic job.

*Jen removed Steven Screen from the chat*

*Jen added Steven Screen to the chat*

Jen

Let that be your one and only warning, SCREEN

Steven

Boundaries noted.

🙂

Jen

Bea? Are you here? Are you in some kind of weird Norwegian quarantine with your parents…oh yeah… you are

I’m messaging Bea privately and she might be ghosting us

Leaving me on Delivered…

John

Ooof

Beate

Jesus, 44 messages before I even have a chance to log on, we’re not at the time yet

I’m here, I’m here!

Jen

Hey Bea!

Beate

Heeey

Steven

I’m half norwegian.

Jen

OH FUCK that’s the end of this chat

Beate

Are you??

❤️❤️❤️

John

im like 4% norweigan

14% swedish

Jen

Guys, I just took a DNA test and turns out

I’m 100% that bitch

John

HAR HAR

Steven

HAHA

Hi Beate, and you bet. My Mom was a Clauson.

Simon

cartoon of a person in front of a Norwegian flag, wearing a Norwegian flag t-shirt, waving two Norwegian flags

Beate

Norwegians unite

❤️

Jen

OK quick Norwegian love affair before we start…WTF is a Clauson

Beate

It’s a name

John

30% Russian German…

Steven

Translated it means “Super duper smart but very humble”

Simon

Steven how many pieces of bread do you use in a sandwich?

Beate

Hahahah!

Only one right answer to this question

A lot rides on it

John

1!

Beate

Yeeeesss!!!!!

Simon

🙄

Steven

Um, 1?

John

1.

Jen

OK OK reeling this in like I might reel in a crate of lobsters

Hello hello and welcome to our very special guest Mr. Steven Screen…

Steven

Honored to be here!

Beate

Mister Norwegian Steven Screen, welcome!

John

the silver fox

❤️

Steven

You guys are the best

Jen

So I’ve hijacked John’s hosting because I felt it was the right time to bring in my man Steven… to talk about vulnerability in fundraising

Not to brag (bragging) but I posted something recently about vulnerability, and so did Steven, and it’s clear that lots of our colleagues out there are thinking about and reflecting on how to connect with donors right now

Steven and I have been working for the past year or so on this idea that a secret key to fundraising is vulnerability…

Simon

Love it

Jen

Steven, do you want to take a minute (and we will be watching your typing) and talk about why we need vulnerability RFN?

Steven

Absolutely!

Beate

Don’t waste our time with an “absolutely” man

We only have 30 minutes, get to the real typing!

John

Gif of little boy thrumming his fingers on a table

Jen

Speaking of being vulnerable, Steven is now getting chirped!

John

LOL

Beate

While typing so he can’t fight back

Jen

Sit down, John and Bea…

John

i don;t even think he;s typing

Steven

Organizations have egos, as do the people who work in them. And humans don’t particularly like to feel vulnerable. What results are fundraising communications where it doesn’t actually sounds like donors are NEEDED.

Beate

Ooh

Jen

YASSSSSSS

Beate

Nicely put

Jen

Charities saying “here’s what we’re doing, here’s how we’re responding” … leaving no space for donors?

Beate

Because we have to sound like we’re on top of things, right..

Steven

But when Organizations practice vulnerability – ask their donors to help *as if the organization really needs the help* — donor’s respond in droves.

John

why don’t humans or orgs like to feel vulnerable?

Beate

Because it leaves you open to pain and ridicule

John

does it though?

Beate

Well, not really, but that’s what we’re afraid of I think. That’s what it feels like.

Jen

Yes, when you are vulnerable you are open to judgment, criticism…or at least you feel that way

Steven

We want to sound like we’re on top of things. Makes us feel better about ourselves. But that’s a massive mistake because our organizations were founded to help others, not the people who work in them. Founders get this, but often successive generations of employees do not.

(This is why it’s usually so great to work for a founder.)

To John’s point, it doesn’t leave you open to pain and ridicule as much as you fear it will. But fear sets the boundary, not data.

Jen

Oh wow…fear sets the boundary

John

it sure does

well said

Beate

My former colleague said that we are afraid to write real and authentic – write with emotion – because in order to do that we have to feel those emotion. And any criticism to our writing then feels like criticism of ourselves and that hurts.

Jen

And there is an irony to the fact that founders probably had a legit fear of going out there to say “we need to stand up for abused women”… that was vulnerability in its purest form… all orgs were founded by some version of that… lovely

Simon

Is it sustainable for a fundraiser to feel everything they write?

Beate

Good question

Simon

Thanks Beate

Jen

I think Steven and I are the wrong people to ask

Steven

Agree with Beate.

Jen

Feelings are facts in my house

I don’t know how to write if I’m not feelings my feelings

John

it is – but it comes with a cost

just as it does being a vulnerable human in our real life

Jen

Wait, is this an intervention?

Beate

Hahah

Simon

It’s why you’re both silver foxes

John

haha

Jen

❤ it’s why the 3 of us are…

Steven

Great question. I don’t think a fundraiser has to feel everything they write. I know I don’t. I often feel like I”m writing in the third person, sitting above the copy and maneuvering the emotions and emotional triggers around to do what I want them to do.

Beate

I know my writing is definitely best when there is real emotion either on my part or the part of the person who’s voice I’m writing in. If not, it’s just sorting following the recipe and it can get dull, there’s no blood flowing to it.

But you can get pretty far with the recipe too!

Jen

See? Steven and I approach our craft entirely differently, but we both come back to the same core: vulnerability. I’m feeling it all and it sometimes wrecks me. Steven sees it all and experiences it entirely differently!

Steven

Agree that writing is most powerful when there is real emotion. But theoretically that emotion is only present in order to trigger emotion in the donor.

I love how Jen and I do this differently – but see so much value in the other’s approach.

Jen

100% same. And it’s part of what makes this whole conversation about vulnerability unique — everyone can come at it from their own place, perspective and plan!

Beate

What a love fest this is😄

John

no kidding

Steven

And the ‘recipe’ is the real skill that we need to be teaching. Because with the recipe even someone who isn’t willing to feel — or doesn’t even know that that means or why someone should feel — can still create effective fundraising.

Beate

This conversation is extra timely now – I see so many organisations refusing to admit that this crisis is hard for them!

Or they don’t want to cause fear (fair enough)

Jen

OK, Steven, break that down for me. You’re a fundraiser and you’re working on the next appeal.

How do we move the needle on teaching this skill set?

Steven

And masking their inability to Ask by saying things like “I don’t think we should be taking advantage of people to raise money right now” and other dreck.

Beate

Yes!

Not necessarily inability, but fear of asking I’d say

Steven

Yes, that’s what I meant to communicate.

Beate

Even for those who have done this for many many years, it still feels good to have an excuse not to ask!

Jen

That’s the first step, isn’t it? Making sure that the chief exec or board chair isn’t allowing their own fears to come into play… “this doesn’t sound like me”, “I don’t talk like that”…even in simpler (non global pandemic times) we hear that…

Beate

How do you do that?

Steven

Overly simple outline to ‘breaking it down’ for Jen:

#1, make sure leadership isn’t hung up by own issues (story about money and/or fundraising).

#2, Understanding that they are doing direct response, not “fundraising.”

#3, understanding that there are tried and true approaches/outlines/recipes that they should follow,

#4, picking the most appropriate recipe and pouring heart/soul/art into that.

Jen

YES! What he just said!

Steven

THis is the part of our business that’s more like Therapy than anything else.

Beate

So much of what we do is just professional therapy..

John

this is my ongoing problem with stupid branding guidelines and nonsense…

Jen

Comes from the same place: control, approve, sanitize.

John

exactly.

like steven said – this is direct response not fucking advertising

Steven

Truth truth truth

Beate

Well brand guidelines are also to be recognisable to everyone you deal with..

Jen

Here at the Agents we’ve replaced all our speaking/training with therapy…

Steven, wow, time is flying here…

Steven

No one has sniped me for several minutes!

Beate

Enjoy it pal

Before you know it you’ll be booted

John

we started late since beate wanted to talk about how norweigan we all were

Beate

Always worth the time

Jen

🙄

Steven

LOL

Simon

Haha

Jen

I wanted to just give some space to share a few examples of how we’ve seen and heard from charities who say to us “wow, we used some of these techniques and our results are up….”

Certainly in the last few months, and with increasing frequency in current times, we hear from folks saying, “this was uncomfortable but we did it and it worked”

is that the vulnerability lesson?

Steven

Absolutely. They were scared to try it – felt risky — but they did it.

Beate

🙌🏼🙌🏼 to bravery

Vulnerability = bravery

Can’t have one without the other

John

being vulnerable – as im hoping we uncovered – ISN’T RISKY

Beate

Feels risky

Steven

It’s the Brene Brown quote on Vulnerability, something like ‘vulnerability sounds like troth and feels like courage. they aren’t comfortable but they’re never weakness.”

Jen

YES! Dr. Brene Brown wouldn’t typo troth but Steven is right…

Beate

Hahahah

Steven

But it’s a GOOD risky. What’s even more risky is doing things like ‘we’re going to innovate’!

Jen

Here’s what Dr Brene Brown said: “Vulnerability sounds like truth and feels like courage. Truth and courage aren’t always comfortable, but they’re never weakness.”

Beate

I was wondering what on gods green earth troth means😂

Jen

Troth sounds kinda viking…

Beate

Kinda yes

Steven

“troth” is a Norwegian term. You wouldn’t understand.

Jen

Oh my “kick you out” finger is feeling very twitchy and itchy…

But we are at our half hour time slot… anyone else want to comment or ask our man Steven a question?

John

Steven

Jen

As I say in my interviews “anything we didn’t cover that you want to share?”

John

How do you stay so trim?

Simon

Ha

Steven

Well John (ha!) mostly good fortune. Eating gluten and dairy free at home. And riding my bike to work.

Jen

OK, let me rephrase

Beate

We can’t all live that Isle life

John

Jen

Any *important or useful* questions?

John, my kick out finger is itchy and twitchy

John

hey – that was a vulnerable question

Jen

Fair. And also, fuck off.

Steven

Here’s my question for you guys . . .

Most of us get to work with people who are vulnerable; they know there is a different way to do fundraising. They’d like to try it and are even willing to be held accountable to doing it. That’s great. But how do we figure out how to work with the people and orgs who aren’t vulnerable? Who needs it but doesn’t see it yet?

Beate

Oh.

Good one..

Jen

Yeahhhh that is a good question!

Beate

I guess I usually find I can’t make good results for them if they won’t listen. And then the relationship naturally ends at some point

John

for me – it’s all about expectations when talking to new clients

Jen

John, please unpack

John

drawing a line in the sand. this is why we need to consider doing it this way… here’s the proof it works…

and if you can’t work this way then we likely can’t do great work together

Steven

What can we do/create/put out there that would help people expand their story about what’s possible in fundraising. And knowing that it’s probably not facts that are going to convince them?

John

i know for me it’s constantly showing examples and sharing stories of the amazing things that happen when you are a vulnerable org

Steven

This is great thinking and policy. We’re getting better and better and doing this with clients before we start working with them

Jen

I think I said this before the chat started, but in the Love family homes, Feelings Are Facts. I honestly have that on an embroidered pillow in my home.

Beate

Show them other work

When it’s not their brand on it, everyone thinks it’s brilliant

Steven

So true. Because they aren’t accountable and haven’t had to push through the fear to do it.

Jen

Ok, let’s keep the conversation going about bringing more charities onside with vulnerability…

But to close, our lobster fact!

Lobsters are sensitive creatures.

Simon

Awww

John

that;s it?

Jen

It is common among mammals to be able to anticipate and avoid pain.

dude, every time you’re fucking rushing my facts

it’s story time

Simon

Anticipate pain

Beate

So profound

Jen

chill out

anyway

Beate

🦞 ❤️

Simon

Poor little fuckers

Jen

it was mostly thought that only vertebrates could have the reasoning it requires to anticipate and avoid pain

but…not with lobsters

Despite their knight-like appearance, lobsters are actually sensitive and delicate animals. Although they can’t see or hear very well they do have an exquisite sense of touch, thanks to hundreds of thousands of tiny hairs that stick out from gaps in their shells. Lobsters are also sensitive to changes in temperature — detecting temperature shifts as small as one degree — which is partly why they migrate up to 160 kilometres every year to find the perfect breeding ground for their fragile babies. This certainly puts death in a scalding pot into perspective.

Steven

*please please let them keep going*

John

so is grilling them better than boiling them?

Beate

Oh my god, John 😬

Jen

NOW you can chirp me about whether you’re satisfied JOHN

Simon

Are there some kinky lobsters who are into it?

Beate

Oh my god, Simon 😬

John

I’m never satisfied Jen – that’s what makes me so good.

*Jen removed John Lepp from the chat*

Simon

lol

Jen

Fuck that noise.

Beate

Ok bye?

Jen

Anyway, sometimes we decide to kick out the non guest. We’re all vulnerable, baby!

*Jen added John Lepp to the chat*

Simon

Yeh John was the least vulnerable so should be punished

John

Sigh

Jen

It all comes from a place of love and learning

Steven

I feel like I’ve just had a chance to play with the varsity Banter Team. And I know I’m still JV.

Beate

I only know what 50% Of that sentence means

Jen

Try it in Norwegian!

Steven

John you can come over. We’re having clams tonight.

John

NICE!

Jen

Anyway, that was fun and action packed. Thank you, Steven!

John

thanks Steven!

Steven

Thank YOU for having me!

Beate

Tusen takk Steven!

🇳🇴

Jen

Steven

The only thing I know how to say in Norwegian is “I love you” which isn’t quite appropriate at the moment. So I’ll say THANKS!

Beate

Thats what i said..

John

Simon

❤️

John

now off for an opened faced sandwich

Simon

I’m off for a quick bread sandwich

Steven

Be well!

Simon

Thanks Steven. Mind yourself x

Jen

OK Steven, joked about this but here’s where we remove you from the group. Lots of love and be well and stay in touch! ❤

*Jen removed Steven Screen from the chat*

March 24: Is it tone deaf to fundraise in corona times?

Jen

tap, tap, tap…

Hello, Lobsters!

Beate

Is this thing on?

Simon

Hi

Jen

First, and most important, how is everyone doing?

Beate

In pandemic-adjusted terms: yeah okay

John

you know…

trying to find the positive in every moment.

Jen

Same. We are healthy and the family is doing well and adjusting to new realities…

And a whole new language!

Beate

The good news: people have now learned to mute on video calls!

No more screaming kids in the audio

🙌

Or road work

Simon

I’m good thanks. Tired but good

John

Simon

you must be HELLA busy with your fundraising everywhere work

everyone wants to do virtual conferences now

rightly so

Simon

It is pretty busy. Everyone needs it now

You know I started my Fundraising YouTube channel 7 years ago?

Jen

For today’s topic, I thought we might extend on some of our covid19 conversations and talk about what is and is not “tone deaf” right now — and John might have just provided the perfect introduction…

John

I’m here to help.

Jen

Is it tone deaf to be talking about future conferences and events?

Do we really think we’re going back to the way things were?

Beate

Depends how future I think

As for after the summer, I’d say cautious optimism

John

not completely… without a doubt we are creating some new normals

Simon

I don’t think it’s necessarily tonedeaf to talk about future travel and plans. Cautiously. But yeh we’re not dead yet

Beate

Definitely! We’ve got to plan for life moving on at some point

Simon

The main tone deafness I’ve seen is people talking about a small percentage of humans being wiped out and why’s that ok

Jen

The MOST tone deaf of all the conversations…

Beate

And we shouldn’t wait for things to get back to normal before we move on, it’s going to be longer than that. Adapt to our now-situation as if this is life for the next 4 months

Jen

Example

John

is that a question?

Jen

A conference I was to speak at in May was postponed, but they have asked if we will come next year…that seems premature/tone deaf to me…

Simon

Do you think? I thought that was fair to invite next week

NExt year I mean

John

same.

Simon

Maybe we need to define tone deaf

Jen

IDK man, I read that and thought “I’m not committing to anything”

John

i mean olympics… now next year – 2021

the euro’s – 2021

Beate

We’re all goinng to be pretty busy in 2021

Though how will we afford all those tickets

😂

Jen

Isn’t this a bit like a snake eating its own tail? How can we cram everything we were going to do in 2020 into 2021 and not expect major fallout…

Not to mention that investments are worth half what they were a month ago and lots of people will lose their jobs or be precariously employed

Simon

It’s delicate though because in some ways this is a big meme and in other ways people are dying. So it can be hard to strike the right tone

Beate

hahah!

That is the most accurate description I have seen!

Jen

THIS

Simon

Like I definitely adjust depending on who I’m talking to

But sometimes the same people are totally joking about it all and then the next time you talk about it they’re making guesses about who will die

Beate

I’m 50% joking about kids in the home office, 50% crying about not being able to be with my bereaved grandmother. It’s a fucking roller coaster.

Jen

So are we all just forever tone deaf now?

Simon

Maybe that’s the conclusion…we’re all always tone deaf, because our tone is different from everyone elses

Like how some people are always offensive

Beate

In a fundraising context though: i think it is tone deaf when we see emergency appeals now, that don’t explain why this is corona relevant

Like “help us, corona!!” okay, but what do you DO that’s affected by it?

Jen

yes

good segue Bea

John

? like an emergency without naming the emergency?

🧐

Simon

Yeh fair point

Which is silly because every cause could be doing a covid19 appeal

Beate

like a pigeon aid raising funds off an earthquake in a different part of the world

Simon

A pigeon fluttering his wings could cause an earthquake on the other side of the world

Beate

lol

Jen

what is and is not tone deaf in our fundraising now?

Simon

I guess it’s tone deaf to ignore COVID19 right now

John

i think jen will disagree

Jen

Yes and no, Simon

Simon

Hit me

Jen

Here’s my problem

Simon

ok

Yes

Jen

Yes, COVID19 is impacting you now and you need help

Simon

Yes

Jen

Let’s say you do after school programming for at-risk kids and you’re not running your program

Simon

Yes

Jen

You’re not running it for the forseaable future

You’re laying off staff

Simon

OK

Beate

some active listening there

John

very much. lol

Jen

How can you actually raise money for said program?

Simon

Well why are you laying off staff and not running programme?

Jen

Because lockdown and social distance

No programs, no need for staff

Simon

Do it virtually

Do it with megaphones

Stand behind a big sheet of plastic

Post books

Do videos

Jen

But are charities doing that yet?

Simon

Give the staff paid time off

John

virtual after school program?

🧐

Jen

I haven’t seen any of that…I’ve only seen programs postponed but not replaced

Simon

No theyre not…but why not?

Cost

Jen

why not is a good question – and if they WERE I would give with a full heart

Beate

So. In such an example, I wouldn’t think it’s tone deaf do fundraise. To say we need you to make sure we’re still here when the world opens back up.

I think it would be entirely appropriate.

Simon

Yeh or we need to close and sterilise the shit out of this place

Beate

hah

Jen

Agree on both counts. But that breaks the big rule of problem and solution

Simon

Now I’m not saying 100% everyone should be doing appeals…but I don’t agree with a blanket no appeal rule for anyone

Beate

I would think such a charity could still do a lot and showing that you’re repurposing and moving quickly will make people want to give

Jen

And people are giving to “keep us ready” which is a thin and shitty fundraising offer

Simon

Really? I feel like it’s total problem and solution

Beate

Problem: We have to keep closed because corona. Solution: You keep our doors open when the world opens

Simon

Problem is covid19 … which everyone has empathy and sympathy about

Jen

Ok yeah I see that Simon

Beate

Or you help pay for our staff to make calls to vulnerable people rather than do physical outreach

Simon

Yeh…”We’ll be waiting for when we can open our doors again”

Beate

I spoke to a charity who are now repurposing a lot of their staff to call their members to make sure they’re okay

Which I think is really great

Simon

I mean how did we survive *before* outside was invented?

Telephone, internet, email, post

Jen

We are still actively fundraising but with special messaging. Bluefrog provided excellent templates.

John

Here’s the link to the Bluefrog resources:

Jen

Goddess, I hope with more of us telling clients to call and talk to their donors there are wonderful and beautiful real conversations happening all over the world

Simon

This is just a much bigger problem than most charities have ever been up against before

This is the new cancer charity

Beate

I think the biggest problem is for those who have had massive events planned. There isn’t really a good way to move that online. You can’t break through the noise enough to replenish that offline activity with online activity. But for any other “regular” fundraisign, I think you can find ways to make it work

Simon

So people still respond to other appeals, but if you can bring in covid it’ll do better?

Like people used to donate to universities and colleges before this…and that’s dumb as shit

John

🤣

Jen

All those spring galas, runs walks etc… FUCKED

Beate

By the way, another cool example that I will forever put in my slides:

A Norwegian artist did a virtual concert with voluntary tickets (or, as we like to call it: fundraising). He had ten times bigger audience than he’s ever had, and made more money than he ever had. NOK 125.000 (about €12.500 normally). Which is also ten times what he’d normally make on a concert.

Which goes to show, you get SO MUCH MORE when you ask rather than sell

🙌

Let people help, let people show their appreciation and boom

John

must have a phenominal list

Beate

no list

John

also – i do not understand norwegian currency

Beate

all facebook

John

like – ads?

Beate

No, he just posted the live and then people share it and log on

1500 people attended

so not a huge crowd either

Simon

That’s really cool

John

that is cool.

Simon

People are making a mistake of seeing online as an inferior version of offline. And in some ways it is

But it also allows you to do so much more online that you couldnt do off

Beate

🙌🏼🙌🏼

It’s usually just because they either aren’t investing or doing it right

Jen

Seeing a lot of artists doing PWYC (pay what you can) virtual events – would love to see charities do more

Beate

Yeah, I can see someone staging a live something from the office and raising money off it

Jen

OK, another tone deaf consideration… legacies

I’m doing a webinar tomorrow with CAGP and a HUGE question here in Canada is about how to fundraise for legacies right now

Simon

Oof…we need a legacy special with you and David Love

Jen

One of our clients, an environmental charity, had 5 calls in 2 days from people wanting to make sure they did what they needed to do to donate their property in their will

Beate

wow

John

bananas

Simon

It makes sense…we’re all thinking there’s like a 50/50 chance we’re going to die

John

and

can you believe charities are sTILL afraid to appear vulnerable?????

Beate

I think it is definitely the right time to look over your website, SEO and search marketing on legacies

Jen

anyone else have something to share about tone deaf in fundraising right now?

wait, is tone deaf tone deaf?

Beate

Careful with humour

She said, flippantly

Jen

Too soon to be funny about it Bea?

Beate

Anyone attempting humour in fundraising now, just for the love of [deity] check it with at least 50 people before letting it out on the public.

It’s like what Simon said, we’re at 50% meme and 50% death. That’s a knife’s edge..

Jen

Ok well that’s basically our time, folks

Beate

wow, that was fast

Jen

Be well, wash your hands… any other thoughts?

Beate

But then again last week was ten yers ago so

Jen

time has no meaning anymore Bea

Beate

did you bring a lobster fact?

or did you deem it done deaf to bring one?

Simon

Oh that was quick

Well nice to chat x

John

yah that went quick

Jen

yes i have a lobster facr

Lobsters would be excellent at physical distancing (hate the term social distance)

We need social intimacy and physical distance

anyway

Beate

because claws?

Jen

back to lobsters

John

is that a fact?

oh

Simon

What

Jen

they would be good at distance because they can swim forward and backwards

John

is THIS – THE FACT?

Beate

..is that unique to lobsters..?

Jen

And when alarmed, they scoot away in reverse by rapidly curling and uncurling their tails

Beate

I guess I’ve never seen a cod reverse

🤔

John

lol

fish don’t need to swim backwards Bea

Simon

They swim backwards?

Weird

Jen

They CAN

John

ive never seen a lobster swim at all

Beate

wow good to see the gong show still goes on

John

but they’d have a grteat backstroke

Jen

Like Simon

Beate

hahahah

John

hohohohoho

Beate

reverse joke

Simon

Weird

Beate

so until next week / year / decade?

Jen

Later lobsters

Simon

Bubye

John

stay well my friends. miss you.

Beate

big hugs to all

🥰

Simon

March 11: Andy is very young.

*Beate added Andy King*

Beate

Hey! Just trying to get on the wifi – hang on. Is everyone here?

John

im not everyone. but i am here.

Andy

I am also present

John

WORD UP ANDY

welcome

Andy

HI FRIENDS

Feel like I’ve MADE IT

Jen

You have buddy!!! Welcome!

Simon? Are you driving or parking or some shit?

Beate

Or ignoring us?

Jen

Andy, Simon is by FAR the sketchiest Lobster in terms of how he rolls into our chatcast

John

mmm lobster rolls

i think Simon is still off maasterminding world domination

Andy

I feel like you should’ve expected that going into this tbf

Simon

This is harrison dada is driveing

Jen

SEE?

John

oh sweet lord

Beate

Harrison, make your dad pull over!

Simon

Sure!

Andy

Harrison how was the sonic movie?

Simon

👍

Beate

😂

John

still feeling on top of the world Andy? welcome to the jungle

Beate

Okay so topic as per Andys suggestion: How every fundraiser always thinks the grass is greener – other causes are easier to fundraise for. Andy – wanna start with your thoughts?

John

is this thing on?

Beate

yes

John

wow. nice intro Beate

Beate

Listen – I’ve said I’m not following the standards you and jen ar setting

I don’t have to turn this thing on – it’s a chat. I just start

John

hohoho

Jen

Hey this is also a unique chatcast because Bea and I are together! In Norway!

Beate and Jen in winter jackets and hats, in front of a very old wooden building covered in snow

Andy

It’s definitely something I’ve noticed in the last couple of months… one of the first conversations I have with a lot of people is about how their cause is either difficult to communicate or not as ‘hot topic’ as it could be. Today I had a mental health charity tell me they ‘wish they were a cancer charity’ for example

And I just think people often stop seeing the wood for the trees and need to engage with how awesome their charity is, rather than what it’s not, y’know?

Beate

WAIT STOP THE TOPIC! WE FORGOT TO MAKE FUN OF ANDY FOR BEING YOUNG!

Andy

HAHAHA

Jen

Andy’s typing speed is 1000000x faster than that joker Mark Phillips

Andy

I’m as old as fundraising UK and that’s an institution I’ll be having none of this

Jen

Ahh to be young

Beate

Jazz hand greeting from live chatcast in same room! No handshakes.

Jen and Beate inside smiling at the camera, Jen waving Jazz Hands

Beate

Back to topic: I think when you say something’s easier to raise money for, they’re also forgetting that that means the work is that much bigger

Jen

We had a hilarious convo in Colorado this year about how charities always think other causes are easier. And 2 in the room was the Space Foundation and a charity that uses horses for therapy healing

Everyone else almost broke their eyeballs with eyerolls

Andy

10000% this

John

haha…. i forgot about the horse one…

Jen

John was like: “you’ve got space!”

Beate

hahah

John

yah “space” is easy…

Jen

“rocketships and planets and astronauts and shit”

Beate

I have a friend who raises money for fucking marshes. Which NO ONE has fond memories of.

Rubber boots stuck in the wet shit

dirty socks

trudging across one fearing for your life😒

Jen

I just punched Bea

Beate

ow! whyyyy

Jen

I love wetlands!

frogs and salamanders and songbirds and shit

Beate

Did you seriously have fun in a wetland as a kid when you had to trek across one in the rain and your boots got stuck??

Jen

That was more fun than many Love family adventures.

John

Andy – isn’t it US – the fundraisers that make this so hard for or on ourselves?

what we raise money for is complicated

how we go about it is complicated

Andy

100%

People may not love marshes but they do love the planet.

John

the people who ask us to do it want it complicated

Andy

We decide to raise money for what rather than why so complications ensue

John

YES BF

Jen

So young and so bright!

Beate

oooh nominate for lightbult moment of the year 2020

Beginners luck?

Andy

😂😂😂

John

i have yet to enccounter a charity anywhere that has said to me – you know John – what we do is simple…

Beate

haha

yea

Jen

It’s also a story we tell ourselves because it’s harder to admit other problems like leadership or budgets or boards…? maybe?

Andy

100%. When you ask someone what they do and they take a deep breath in and you just go ‘oh heeeere we go’

John

exactly.

Jen

Right? Like “buckle up for the bitching”

Beate

kind of what I do when someone ask me what I do😂

how do you describe what the fuck a fundraiser is in a language that doesnth have a word for it

Andy

I mean that is. Fair challenge.

John

so

how can we make this a helpful conversation for people?

Andy

I think there’s definitely an excuse culture too. Like telling ourselves we’re too old to type faster 😉

Beate

heyheyhey!

No mocking of the typing speed of this group dude

Jen

Dude that was borderline to be booted from this chat. I’ve got grey hair now and I’m not fucking around.

Andy

Hahaha I like to live dangerously

Beate

young stupidity

Jen

Andy DANGER King

Beate

Dandy

John

how long have you and beate been drinking for Jen?

Beate

We’re….not!

Beate

well except that one beer for lunch

Jen

🙌

John

🧐

Beate

well, Jen had two

Jen

True.

Andy

I guess it’s about noticing the people who are owning their cause and what they’re doing with it?

Beate

totally!

Jen

We also have to talk about the fact that staff turnover and new learning curves plays a huge role in this

Beate

Also to stop thinking that your yardstick is wordl domination

or that you should convince the world at large to support you

Rather than look at what the strength of your particular cause is, and finding those who already think that is really important

Andy

You definitely see people try a scattergun/mass appeal approach rather than a focused few and trying to resonate with them.

Jen

Totally Bea. Focus on the donors that love you and not all those who don’t.

Andy

Which I totally get. It’s totally how I play video games – spray and pray.

Beate

hahah

the difference: that FUCKING WORKS in video games!

I always beat the boys at fighting games with spray and pray. The boys did not like it.

I was accused of cheating.

Andy

(Still waiting for Simon to fight me on smash bros)

Jen

My 15 year old son would give you a run for your money.

Beate

they’re pretty close in age, too

Andy

Hahahah

John

Like this:

The donor pyramide, but shaped like a heart. The top two thirds of the heart has 'donors who care. a lot', the second third says 'donors who care. a little' and under the bottom line it says 'donors who don't care yet'.

Jen

NICE with the slides!!! #keener

John

the new donor pyramid?

not really new anymore

Beate

💞

Andy

Oooh I LOVE this

John

helps you decide where to spend your time and effort right?

Beate

For sure

Andy

One charity I’ve worked with used to nail it by just ensuring all beneficiary feedback, where appropriate, was circulated round all staff on a daily basis

We had stories and a sense of meaning pouring out of our EARS

John

Jen

Beate

If you’re a cancer charity, don’t worry about people who give to puppies. And if you’re a puppy charity don’t worry about child sponsorships. And if you’re the marshes people, only worry about Jen and forget everyone else

(don’t punch me again)

Jen

No promises.

John

that’s right becasue there are people who care about the puppies. and people who care about the marshes. and people who care… etc

Andy

I look forward to hearing about all the marsh based direct mail Jen receives in the coming weeks

Jen

Imagine! That would be amazing. If chatcast became a prospecting pool for our colleagues.

John

chatcast TM

Beate

a shit business idea with only four prospects in the pool

John

does anyone else get the feeling that harrison didnt pass along the “dad pull over message”?

Beate

hahahah

Siiiiimon?

He’s gonna do a John

“Alright, we’re wrapping up” “Hey guys, I’m here, where are we?”

John

ha

John

i’d like to see that – or he’ll show up just to boot andy off.

Andy

This seems on brand

Beate

So does anyone have a cause that they secretly think “wow that must be tough to fundraise for!”?

Whether they’ve succeded or not I guess

John

the ones i think of- – i jsut look at them and go – how can they possibly raising any money with this crap

Andy

I will admit, my heart goes out to domestic abuse charities

Jen

I think ones that are about helping offenders and/or prisoners when they come back into communities gotta be a tough slog

Beate

Why do you think they’re hard to raise money for, Andy?

Andy

I think there’s such a ‘I’d NEVER get myself in that situation’ misinformation out there & it’s a difficult topic to get people to engage with

John

interesting.

Andy

You hear it takes someone, on average, 5.5 years to leave an abusive relationship

And some people think ‘well I wouldn’t deal with it for a day’

Beate

Does our newly established rule still go though? That would only true if you’re trying to raise money from *anyone* rather than those who really care about that cause?

Andy

Maybe – hard to say.

Jen

Could be. Also could be that one donor said one thing one day and it became amplified… that old chestnut about “donor complaints”

Beate

What about prisoners reform, like Jen said?

Jen

Yah, I know it’s important work, and some people will really care about it, but can’t be easy

Beate

If Simon was here, he could tell his story about how those causes are good to ask for foundation money for

Andy

I see Beate’s point though – there is definitely an audience prime to support them, and an audience who would be a waste of time

Beate

Okay guys – entering wrap up phase

Andy

Foundations are made up of people too, though, so it still has to resonate

Beate

What’s the most golden fundraising opportunity?

top of the pyramid?

Is there one?

Jen

it will be the one closest to each fundraiser’s heart.

either that or sick puppies stuck in space

Beate

💕

John

Beate

good conclusion

Andy

Won’t ANYBODY think of the PUPPIES

Beate

okay ready for lobster fact?

John

im ready

Beate

okay. It’s not topical.

Jen

lobster fact! lobster fact!

Beate

It IS however timely

and what times are we living in currently?

Jen

pandemic?

Beate

yup

Andy

😬

Beate

There is a lobster disease called epizootic shell disease

(epizootic is a funny word)

John

wtf?

Beate

It’s a bacterial infection that makes lobsters impossible to sell as food, eating away at their shells and sometimes killing them.

Andy

That’s it. I’m fundraising for lobsters.

Beate

hahaha

Jen

💯

Beate

For this excellent joke, we will keep you un-booted and boot Simon instead

Andy

Hahahaha

*Jen Love removed Simon Scriver from the chat*

Beate

hohohoh

Jen

I hope i didn’t just traumatize Harrison

“dada….DADA….your friends!!!!”

Beate

Alright guys. Jen and I have excellent food to eat and wine to drink and fundraisers to entertain and learn to and from and surfaces to disinfect

gotta go!

love love love

Jen

Nice work Andy!

Andy

Enjoyyyy

💜

That was really fun, thanks for inviting me

🥰

John

thanks andy!

Beate

thanks for coming, great to have you 😁

Jen

You’re welcome back anytime, and you’ll outlive us all so you can carry the torch…

Beate

*done*

There, happy John? I turned it off.

John

meh

Jen

OK Andy now we are going to boot you and bring Simon back in. Byeeeeeeeee

*Jen Love added Simon Scriver to the chat*

*Jen Love removed Andy King from the chat*

Simon

Sorry!

March 3: Corona virus – how will it impact charities?

John

RECORD BUTTON – ACTIVATED!

welcome to a brand new #chatcast friends

Jen

Bea this time next week I’ll be landing in Oslo!!!

John

it’s a bright new day and today i thought we should chat about everyone’s HOT topic : CORONAVIRUS and it’s implications on our sector in the days ahead

Beate

No Jen, you won’t – that will have been yesterday

😂

Jen

Right! Time zones and dates are my kryptonite!

Beate

And directions

Sorry John – will try not to derail any more!

Jen

Thank you for hosting today, John? What’s on your mind?

John

Simon cant join us since – he came down with something…

so

Beate

Is Simon quarantined?

John

its just three lobsters today

Beate

coronalobster

John

he should be.

Beate

permanently

Jen

it would be a safer option if he was quarantined

John

i will try to resist making light of this TOO much – since – that’s usually simons job and two…

this is pretty serious

Beate

Yeah

Jen

pandemics usually are

John

we have colleagues who are literally locked awauy

Beate

Same

and i was in a meeting with THEIR colleagues today…

I made them stand in the corner

John

I talked to my pal Giovanna – who lives in Milan yesterday

everything is shut down there

she said “Schools are closed and most people are working from home these weeks. Cinemas, theatres, museum, bars and churches had to close. All public events are being cancelled over the next two- three months. ”

Jen

what’s spreading faster, the virus or the panic?

John

I would say both!

John

so i do have a couple specific things we can gab about

one is legacy gifts and the other is premiums…

which one do we unpack first

Jen

from the sublime to the ridiculoyus

John

are you new here Jen?

Beate

i don’t think there’s panic

Jen

Definitely lots of stockpiling stories on the news

Beate

I think there’s a measured and serious response to what IS very serious – even if most of us will be perfectly fine.

John

i hope youre right BEATE

Jen

she usually is

Beate

The whole managment team of one of our orgs over here is currently quarantined after meeting with a confirmed case (before they were confirmed).

Obviously, that’s going to impact some stuff.

John

right?

Jen

one of our clients is travelling at the end of the month and has already been told that working from home is likely

Beate

But I think the larger impact is going to be on the expectation of panic and unrest.

LIke, if you anticipate the economy tanking – are you going to spend your money on donations?

Jen

my brother in law (works in tech) has had all his travel suspended until end of april at the earliest

John

as a direct mail fella – i’ve wondered for those collageues of ours

who heavily rely on premiums (from china) in the direct mail

what if shipments of labels stop getting shipped

Beate

Shipments are seriously impacted

John

this is a real question BTW

lol

Beate

It’s really slow getting goods shipped out of China at the moment

That’s not about stopping spread, it’s about people in actual china doing the shipping being sick or quarantined

serious answer

Jen

i care much more about the medicine that is not going to be shipped, but defo premiums will be impacted

John

so – you have a heavy premium acqusiiton program in Australia… now what?

Jen

what will be the impact on charities who rely on that form of donor acquisition?

John

exactly

aside from the obvious

Beate

Maybe a good time to rethink and test non-premium aquisition and rely on quality and connection instead…?

🔥

Jen

YES! that would be a wonderful outcome

Beate

or hey – disease doesn’t spread through the web!

throwback to last weeks chatcast

John

so

maybe this virus is a good thing?

didnt they show the air in CHINA was better because of all the quarentines?

Beate

Yeah, drastcially

Seriously though, I do think we should all think through which parts of our programs might get impacted, what events might we have to change, what goods and services might not get delivered, etc, and plan accordingly.

And for gods sake have insurance if you rely on event income

Figure out who can and cannot work from home, how often does the office get cleaned properly, have routines.

John

i think there is a lot of – how bad is this going to get?

Jen

and this is just about fundraising. what about program staff on the ground in different parts of the world–some charities will have to change their programs

John

but good advice Beate.

Beate

Same for program delivery – how can this impact us if the worst happens.

Like Jen just said 🤦🏻‍♀️

Jen

i know you wanted to talk about legacies too john

but we have to also consider what will happen to larger fundraising conferences

John

let’s talk about conferences first

Beate

We just had this discussion at our conference planning meeting today

Jen

oh my goddess, how often do charity offices get cleaned… in my experience working at a charity…NEVER

Beate

Someone should look into that. With soap

Jen

what was the discussion Bea?

John

we started to hear rumours that some of our fav conferences are talking about plan B’s

Beate

So our conference is in september

how do we prepare for an eventual plan B if the outbreak is still going.

Jen

Simon and Nikki were so ahead of the curve with Fundraising Everywhere!

John

lol… who knew

Beate

Apparantly that’s how the Spanish flu rolled, there was a smaller outbreak in the spring, quieter over summer and the real wave in the fall. If that happens, it impacts the whole fall conference roster.

Jen

Maybe Simon is a criminal mastermind who has created this whole thing

Beate

He IS conspicuously missing this conversation..

John

LOL

Beate

But yeah. You do need to plan for a) how do we contain this if it’s still going but not to cancel everything-level, and b) what do you do if you do have to cancel

with a) I mean hygience, disinfection, how to make it safer for a large crowd to be in the same room.

hygience, that’s a new word

John

and like you said B

if they have set up their conference without sufficent insurance

you are a bit screwed

Beate

Yep. Don’t plan ANYTHING that would break the bank if it gets cancelled

John

an you imagine if youre a 1,000 conference and you had to refund everything and everyone?

Beate

and still pay all your vendors ’cause contracts.

Jen

My mum wrote a book about pandemics. Think imma dust that off for bedtime reading with my teenagers

A hand with blue nail polish holding a book. The cover is an alarming shade of red, with two drawn skulls on it. The book title is Pandemic survival - it's why you are alive. Authors Ann Love and Jane Drake, Illustrated by Bill Slavin.

Beate

oh wow!

That is SUCH a dramatic cover!

John

LOL

Jen

Right?

John

even as international speakers – such as ourselves i’m really starting to consider my plans for the next while

Jen

John do you remember the Congress during SARS? Or was it H1N1?

Beate

Wait were you both there for SARS?

So old

John

hmmm

Jen

Fuck you Bea

Beate

lol

John

i dont remember

Jen

I remember they gave us all hand sanitizer pens

John

ouf

RIGHT

Beate

SARS was 2003. H1n1 was 2010 or something.

Jen

and showed us all the different ways to greet without shaking hands

John

i think i thought mine was a mouth spray

Beate

Gif showing three pairs of feet filmed from above. The people touch shoe tips, mimicking a form of hand free greeting

John

lol. that will be about it.

the full body huggers WILL NOT LIKE this

Beate

I’ve been so cautious about what I touch these past few days!

Which you probably should be anyway to be fair

John

(name of your sex tape beate?)

Beate

😒

Jen

I’ve never been more aware of how much I touch my face

Beate

JEN WHAT WILL WE DO NEXT WEEK YOU’RE RIGHT OFF A PLANE!!

John

lol

Beate

SANTISE YOURSELF AND THEN WE’LL HUG

Jen

Deal

Beate

It’s so unfair that pollen season coincides with don’t touch your face season

John

ok – we need to wrap up soon

so

ill ask one more question

Beate

Do lobsters get corona virus

John

do you think that legacy giving programs could see an uptick – due to the unfortunate fact that maybe there will be an uptick in deaths? and is this good or bad for charities? discuss

Jen

oouf

Beate

Maybe and no don’t even ask that question my god

So inappropriate

😂

John

no?

Jen

Another consideration: will more people be writing (or updating) wills now?

John

right?

Jen

that would also be a good outcome…more people writing/updating wills

Beate

Either way – an uptick now would mean a downtick (is that a word?) in the coming years, so.

John

well

not necessarly

Beate

why not?

John

we’d just be speeding the inevitable up

Beate

That’s what I said

John

oh

LOL

Beate

you’re agreeing with me by saying you disagree with me?

John

that would be a very lobster thing – wouldnt it

Beate

true

In conclusion: wash your hands.

John

in all seriousness – i do hope all of our friends and colleagues – arouind the world – stay safe and healthy…

Jen

Agree. wash your hands!

John

and hopefully this thing starts to sort itself out…

Beate

According to Trump it’ll all be fine when the weather is warmer so 🤷🏻‍♀

Jen

Simon, maybe you can let us know how you plan to unleash this on the planet…

John

lobster fact!

in the spirit of todays coronaversation

i have a lobster fact

Jen

I LOVE a themed lobster fact!

#swoon

Beate

can I for the record say I object to the standard you’re both setting by relating lobster facts to themes

John

LOL

Jen

Objection noted. Moving on.

John

considering the fact that stores are being emptied

When food is scarce, lobsters can turn cannibal and dine on smaller lobsters.

Jen

You already used this fact!

Beate

hahahahahaha

John

did i????

SHIT

WTF?

Jen

I think you have the virus.

Beate

It is REALLY not that many lobster facts to check through, John!

John

ok ok

hold on

does anyone want to guess

the record

Jen

for how many more times can he fuck up the lobster fact?

Beate

hahahahah

John

for the largest lobster roll?

Beate

oh.. eating lobster rolls, so much better than eating the kids.

Jen

I think I just heard Mark Phillips’ ears perk up

John

LOL

guesses?

Beate

Side note: Cannibal lobster fact was in the Mark Phillips episode.

John

No googling

Beate

what are we talking about, weight, square kilometers, height in american forearms?

Jen

biggest lobster roll… literally no idea. like one of those giant submarine sandwiches they eat at american fairs?

John

180 FEET!

Beate

I do not know how much that is

Neither does 90% of the world

metric please

John

FFS Beate

Beate

FFS John

John

there is a place called Shediac, New Brunswich – here in CANADA

John

sigh

180 feet

Beate

Ah length

Is that seriously just a bunch of baguettes in a line?

Very unimpressive

Jen

that’s a serious motherfucker of a lobster rolll

John

it’s like

BIG

just look at the damn link

the made the roll themselves Beate – sheesh

Beate

I did

Not impressed

John

you are a tough crowd

John

bah. now I NEED TO GO WASH my hands after this chat

Beate

Weeeell, I mean. I think we could probably beat that record

John

stay safe gang.

Jen

XOXO lobsters

John

how norweigan of you to say that BEATE

see you next time!

Beate

Oh – but the thing was a fundraiser, did you see?

350 tickets at $20.

To watch bread cook for ten hours

I’m talking to myself now, aren’t I

John

sigh

RECORD BUTTON – OFF….

Feb. 25: Clearly, everyone should stop doing digital

*Beate Sørum added Claire Kerr to the chat*

Beate

Time zone check: everyone ready in fifteen?

Simon

Yes

John

No

Picture from inside the passenger seat of a car, showing a busy road

John

lol

Beate

you’re not on the driver’s side so you’re fine

John

I’ll do my best

Claire

Here!

John

Claire!!!!

Simon

CK!

Claire

😀

Beate

Did you remember your lobster fact this time, Simon?

If not you have two minutes

Simon

Oh fuck

Beate

one minute

though it doesn’t have to live up to Jen’s standards of being relevant to topic, I don’t know when that started being a rule

😄

Find me a digital lobster

Simon

OK sorted

Claire

The only lobster fact I have is that Pinchy deserved better

Simon

Pinchy

😭😭😭

Gif of Homer Simpson eating his pet lobster Pinchy, licking his fingers in joy while crying

Beate

Sooo Simon, wanna start us off before John has to jump through security?

Simon

Yep let’s go

We have a guest lobster

Claire

Hello!

Simon

Can’t remember who she is replacing

Hello Claire Kerr!

Beate

One of the canadians

John

🧐

Beate

they’re all the same

Simon

The interchangeable canadians

Claire

We blend together like maple syrup and snow

Beate

Initials JL I believe

Simon

Ha

So Claire is a good guest this week because she’s a digital legend

And it’s the week that Blackbaud’s stats came out

Beate

🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

Claire

You have to be careful with the number of Canadians you invite to a group before they derail the convo to that one time they backpacked through Europe

Simon

With a flag on their rucksack

Claire

Yes we love to point that out. Ok sit down Jacques Cousteau

Beate

hah

Well. The stats are out.

Claire

STATS!

Beate

Cue the annual cool-fest of dunking on digital

Simon

I have put their main digital stat in to graph format

Line graph of percentage of overall fundraising revenue raised online from 2012 to 2019. The line increases almost imperceptibly from somewhere around 6,5% to 8% out of the 100% over the near-decade.

Claire

I think this proves we should stop fundraising online immediately.

Simon

Well I’m not sure it’s a dunk-fest as such. Maybe. But it’s more kind of “look! Can we realign our priorities now!”

Claire with a curve ball

Beate

It’s a bit of a dunk-fest.

Simon

Yes a bit

John

Guys… sorry just moving through the airport…

Simon

Uh-oh…now I’m outnumbered by digital gurus

Claire

I’m suggesting all clients throw effort into asking for change at the cash register. Those plastic boxes aren’t going to fill themselves.

Beate

It’s a yes-and thing I think

Yes, of course you need to figure out your actual fundraising first and just shifting to digital isn’t going to fix those glaring issues of not recognising donors or talking a language they like/understand

Simon

It’s a yes-but so many other factors

Beate

AND no one is actually suggesting that

Simon

I think some people are

Beate

no serious people are saying it😄

Only “gurus”

Claire

I think we should also give a shoutout to Canadian orgs with the higher growth rate in online fundraising (more opportunity to grow?) at 9.23% vs 3.11%

🙂

Simon

Stick a flag on it

Beate

I believe the stat also lies quite a bit (lies damn lies and statistics)

Simon

I think there is an actual pressure to shift to digital and be everywhere

Beate

Because it tracks digital conversions, if I understand it correctly. But it doesn’t track how many first-time donors came through digital, who ended up donating on their next DM. Or signing up to a direct debit. Or getting to know you and responding when they in some other way ended up in your file.

Simon

Correct…that’s a flaw. But of course it works the other way too. People who see offline and then donate online.

Beate

Absolutely!

Beate

which is why I think the whole digital vs the rest debate is bonkers

Claire

Yes I think this is confusing to track for many organizations. I hear from folks all the time especially if they have multiple systems with data in them.

Simon

The stat that I always find interested is from the private sector…where apparently only abotu 12% of purchases are online

Which I think is incredible

Beate

is that across all industries?

Simon

Yeh…so obvs massively skewed in some industries

Beate

I would think so

Claire

Retailers also know the power of digital marketing to equal sales in person. You don’t have to explain that to Nike, etc.

Beate

exactlhy

Claire

There are many charities who have a well known brand “offline” – like a brand name essentially, and market on non-digital channels, so online all they have to do is direct marketing (Donate Now) vs. explain the value of their org. When I see other orgs compare themselves to their digital success I have to SMH

Simon

OK what about this…what percentage of a nonprofits spend should be on digital? (And you can only answer with a number and no other caveats or I will eject you from chat)

Beate

I wanna caveat and explain so bad

😬

*Simon Scriver removed Beate Sørum from the chat*

*Simon Scriver added Beate Sørum to the chat*

Beate

I DIDN’T!

Claire

LOL we removed you

Simon

ha

Claire

LOL I think the stat everyone remembers from marketing classes is 8% of revenue to marketing

Simon

Yeh we do forget that…that digital is so much more than donating

Claire

But underneath that you can segment digital

However – Not all of a charity’s mission is marketing

Organizations doing program delivery should be spending on digital too

There are are so many ways that digital channels can help an organization complete their goals whether or not fundraising is included in the mix.

Simon

Maybe it’s because we have the wrong impression that digital is social

Like it’s hard to even classify email as digital

Claire

And often they work together —- The Measuring People Power report by MobLabs that just came out actually explains how orgs can quantify the power of online movements, advocates, volunteers

Simon

Ooh I have to read that

Claire

Care2 also sponsored – they survey 500 (!) organizations and grassroots groups.

Beate

It is asking “how much is a car”. It’s going to be very different for different orgs, wether they have big databases or not, what kind of giving they are after, and how digtially mature their target audience is

And we have the idea that digital is “free”

It’s weird how no one minds paying €1200 for a street recruited regular donor, but balks at paying €800 for a digitally recruited one

Simon

Hmm…I think people balk at all donor recruitment spend…but you’re right

Beate

one zero too many in those numbers

😂

Simon

There is an unreasonable demand on what digital should return immediately

Beate

For the love of god balk if it costs you €800 to recruit a donor

Simon

Norwegian numbering – K$€5.000,00Ó per donor!

Beate

🙄

Simon

Depends on the ROI

Beate

dønor

Claire

I think what is happening here is that face to face and direct mail use trusty formulas that many development professionals recognize as reasonable long term investments. When it comes to digital, there’s a trust gap. I’m not saying the gap makes sense but you can feel it in the concern many professionals have about proving to the board that they should invests in online acquisition.

Beate

YES!

Simon

IS there a Norwegian agency called dønor?

Beate

“dø” means die, so no.

Simon

Which is weird because digital is easier to track over the longterm

But so many times it’s one facebook post or one email and the “It doesn’t work”

Beate

But many are not willing to even DO longterm

exactly

Claire

And as a sector, we are not great at sharing results with each other. So many orgs feel they aren’t confident that THEIR program will be the “successful one”

Simon

So is our problem that we treat online and offline too differently? There’s a big divide but in reality not so much

Beate

And all experience shows that you have to invest in longterm, always-on digital for it to yield the real results. And invest in testing and learning

Simon

Like what we say in the Donor Love Academy…your donor isn’t online or offline. They’re a human being who sometimes goes online

Beate

“sometimes”

not sharing *my* screen stats…

😬

Claire

Thankfully in Canada I’ve seen some great multi-channel case studies that show how digital can work with other channels. Because monthly giving is such a buzz right now, this is a great time to talk about these issues because successful recurring giving programs integrate lots of different things.

Simon

That’s important

Phone boosts email, email boosts events, everything boosts everything

Beate

I wish we could say fundraising digital instead of digital fundraising

Simon

“Fundraising Digital”…interesting

“Screen fundraising”

Claire

I think that many professionals see digital as unknowable or unreliable and it creates a fear factor that stops them from learning more.

Simon

Maybe there’s too much info out there

Let’s stop reading these reports

Beate

One org I know well here, recruits 5-10.000 regular donors a year on facebook alone

those are volumes previously only thought to be possible face to face (remember only five million norwegians all together)

Simon

What’s 10.000 ?

In English

Beate

10,000

ffs

🙄

Simon

lol

That’s a lot

Beate

that IS a lot

times €20 a month times 5-10 years

Simon

That’s like Eøøøøøø! krone!

Claire

I love all the reports in aggregate! You also have to look at who is included, who is excluded, and what kind of vertical the orgs are in.

Simon

Yeh good call…the Blackbaud report is only their customers

Beate

And is it US/Canada only?

or all markets?

Simon

It’s mainly US but they have little sections on UK, Canada and NZ/Oz

Which aren’t too different

Beate

So basically the least digital markets out there

they still use checks ffs

Simon

Yeh I mean it would be interseting to see Norway

So far ahead in terms of money

Ireland is so chequey and cashy

Beate

Depends on how you count, but we’re approaching 100% of our transactions already being digital

When you receive a DM, you’ll open your banking app and pay from your account

We wouldn’t classify that as a digital transaction though – channel is still offline

Simon

But it would be recorded as digital prob?

In a databse I mean

Beate

No

Simon

You know I’ve never seen Norwegian cash?

Beate

can’t remember the last time I was in possession of cash

like for real

Simon

lol

A few Norwegian 200 krone bills. They have a drawing of a cod on them.

Simon

Give a man a fish

Claire

I think the most money-digital forward place I’ve ever been was Kenya

I wish we could do all payments so easily as through phones. But Canada is not there though

Simon

Yeh when whatsapp roll out money transfers it will be a gamechanger

Beate

We already have that

not whatsapp, but similar

I open it, type in someone’s phone number and whoosh money out

instantly transferred

however – those apps don’t share ANY data

Which poses it’s own set of problems of course.

Simon

I liked Revolut until I got banned for money laundering

Oh our time is up! Give me a conclusion each please

What should we learn from these stats?

Claire

I also find that some professionals worry too much about the payment side – which is the end of the transaction. They have weird or elaborate donor journeys set up to accommodate an existing payment gateway or CRM configuration instead of accommodating the donor

Beate

yeah

“my database has this shitty form so i must use it”

no

invest in better

Claire

These stats shouldn’t discourage you from building out your growth plan or 2020. The scarcity mentality hits us when your online channels have a smaller ROI & nobody at the org is clamouring to invest more if you can concentrate on major gifts (for example). But with forward thinking you can plan to have that solid annual giving foundation. Also – digital marketing supports relationship building like major gifts / legacy!

Beate

Yep! Invest in infrastructure, and invest in your advertising program

Simon

That’s a good conclusion

OK…lobster fact

Beate

If you sent out DM’s with no way to pay, you also would receive no money

Which is the equivalent of what happens online so many times

Simon

Claire are you excited? Your first live lobster fact

John

Ok. I made it

Beate

hahaha!

Simon

Fucks sake John

We’re wrapping up

John

What???

Claire

LOL yes!! I’m ready

Simon

It’s a myth that lobsters scream when you put them in hot water – they have no lungs and no vocal cords. The lobster’s only voice is kind of a crackly noise some people compare to violins

Beate

wtf

Simon

Unfortunaytely not like Jen

Claire

how do they make the crackly noise then!

Simon

They actually have a little violin

Claire

that makes sense

Beate

and.. how do you compare a crackly noise to a violin

🧐

John

It’s their soul leaving their bodies

Beate

☹️

Claire

they heard my grade 3 lessons obvs

A drawing of a lobster playing a violin but holding it like a big bass (the instrument, not the fish)

Simon

OK that’s it…lovely to chat. And thanks again Claire x

Beate

Thanks for joining Claire!

John

Sigh

Thanks Claire!

Simon

Thanks for joining John

🙄

Claire

Thank yoU!!!

*Beate Sørum removed Claire Kerr*

Feb. 18: The soul crushing starts at 12 months

*Jen Love added Kimberley MacKenzie to the chat*

Jen

Good Morning/Afternoon!

John

giddyup

Jen

Hope everyone is well today.

Simon

M’aftern’ing

Jen

I’m delighted to welcome our guest lobster, the one and only Kimberley MacKenzie!

Kimberley

Hey!

Simon

Hello KmacK

John

hello KM! welcome.

Kimberley

Thanks Jen…nice to be here.

Interesting platform….

Jen

The lovely Beate will do an edit on our worst typos…wish she was here today but she is with her family and we send lobster love to them all!

So I asked my friend and colleague KM to join us today because I want to talk about something that is really a big part of her thinking and work…

And that’s around managing change within organizations.

John

didnt you use a fancier name for it earlier?

Jen

I think I called it change management

and then you (John) rolled your eyes at me

Kimberley

Jargonny….

John

i get “managing change…”

Jen

So maybe managing change makes it more approachable

So I wanted to start if we could all have a brief reflection on what “managing change” means…

Kimberley

I like “influencing change”

Jen

OOOH KM out of the gate with better lingo

Talk to us about that

John

did we get KM to take the keystoke test btw?

Kimberley

Well if we see ourselves (Fundraisers) as being an influencer it sets our ego aside and puts us in a position of service to the organization.

But Influence is better.

We don’t “manage” anyone.

Simon

Don’t we all influence everything?

Kimberley

Yes. I think we do. Positive or negative.

So what kind of influence do we want to have?

John

don’t we all know people at orgs who want to NOT influence anything or anyone? keep their head down? stay away from change? conflict?

Kimberley

I think it is a mindset that needs to shift if real change can happen.

Simon

But everyone thinks they have a positive influence

Kimberley

And yet results would say otherwise.

Simon

Nobody sets out to negative

Jen

You’re right that no one wants to be a negative influence, but putting your head down and avoiding change or conflict definitely is a challenge

Kimberley

I think a lot of fundraisers are frustrated and stuck that their organizations, staff, management, boards aren’t just doing what they say.

Fundraisers are often seen as a magic bullet to every problem in the organization.

Jen

and it’s easier and safer to say “well, I’ll just do my job and I’ll do 2% better than last year”

Kimberley

That feels pretty good at the beginning.

Jen

Lots to unpack already!

Because part of the problem with the whole influencing change is getting a new fundraising leader and putting all your hopes on them!

Kimberley

Exactly.

Jen

So the pressure cooker starts even before your day 1 at a job… right?

Kimberley

And when real change takes about 24 months and the average turnover rate for senior fundraisers is 18 months no actually change happens

Jen

Ok this is the good shit

KM unpack that for me… that timetable of 24 months to change and 18 months on staff…

Kimberley

Here is the cycle: First six months: New fundraiser – everyone hopeful – honeymoon.

Next six months – rolling up the sleeves and building a fundraising plan. – optimism.

Jen

(and a good fundraiser will spend their first 6 months listening and building trust)

Kimberley

Yeah that’s the fun part.

Everyone loves their job then.

John

when does the soul crushing start?

Kimberley

12 months.

sometimes nine

Simon

God in the first 6 months you’re still getting to grips with where to have lunch

John

this feels like a story i hear over and over

Jen

And in some orgs you haven’t even met your board members or major donors in the first 6 months

Simon

Some fundraisers never get to meet board members

Kimberley

When it comes time to implement the plan and everyone realizes they they need to shift/change their status quo to raise more money.

Last 6 months….”I need to get the fuck out of here or my career is toast”….”let me throw all my talent and energy into my volunteer work so my colleagues will know how awesome I am and I can get a new job.”

Jen

Ooooofff

Kimberley

It is systemic and tragic and happens over and over and over again.

We puff each other up at conferences so we can go back to dysfunctional organizations.

John

😭

Kimberley

I don’t think it has to be that way.

In fact I know it doesn’t. We need to go upstream. We need to influence change.

Simon

Are fundraisers not getting the right support at conferences?

Like they’re just told this and this and this needs to change

Then back to reality it’s not so easy

Kimberley

We need to see ourselves at the centre of ….

Jen

I think there is a lot of truth in that about conferences and then going back and realizing that influencing change/implementing new ideas is the really hard work

Kimberley

Well…my frustration is certainly that we go, feel better and then it falls flat when we get back to our offices….I think there’s a podcast about that somewhere. 😘

Jen

getting fired up and inspired is the easier part…doing the work in our own charities is much harder

Simon

“From change maker to change manager”

Conference tagline

“From fired up to fired”

Jen

Good one! I’d attend that!

HAHA the first one

John

😂

Jen

I’d like to ask you about your experience being influencer of change… perhaps with a specific project…

Kimberley

What? like when a consultant brings you a wacky idea….and it’s your job to implement?

John

haha

Jen

Yes, like that. Or anything in that vein.

Kimberley

Let’s talk about John.

John

your honour: i find these questions leading…

Jen

(bangs gavel) overruled!

Kimberley

I will never forget the time I was a director of fundraising and John was my primary agent at that time…..

Yes…we have worked for pretty much my entire career I think.

John

truth! what a beautiful adventure!

Kimberley

Anyway – on this particular appeal – John suggested we NOT use org branding for the package and that the letter not come from the ED.

Simon

Did John deliver with his usual sass?

Kimberley

Yup full of attitude.

In fact. On this occasion John suggested the letter come from a bird.

I’ll never forget the my response on the phone….

john do you remember?

John

no…

silence?

Simon

Haha

Kimberley

“What the FUCK! How the hell am I supposed to get the director of communications to agree not only to no branding but to a return postage of bird prints!!!” You are fucking crazy.

I had this wave of….cool idea. I have no idea how to get people onside with it.

John

😬

Jen

Yep, that’s how i recall it. Verified!

So what did you do? what were your steps?

This is part of the untold story of Ruby the Hummingbird… And I love it!

John

Here’s the “told story”, on SOFII:

Jen

Thanks John! So helpful!

John

I’m here to serve.

Kimberley

That appeal wasn’t just a cool appeal. (that is the story that gets mostly told) That appeal was a shift in the organizational culture. And it required me taking a step back and thinking about thow to influence the change.

Who to get onside?

How to convince folks it was a good idea.

Simon

Without knowing if it was a good idea?

Kimberley

By that point trust had already been built. Trust from me that my consultant was smart and I wanted to try it.

I trusted John.

John

such a key component to working with any supplier/partner!

Simon

Do you still trust John?

John

lol

Kimberley

Well…I’ve worked primarily with Jen since then.

😂

Jen

^^delightful burn

Kimberley

Man this chat goes fast…

Here’s the thing.

When we approach our job as being influencers of change and building trust. We can get alignment around all sorts of wacky new innovative ideas.

And there is a systematic approach to doing that that I think more development folks could benefit from. And as a result they would be more satisfied and more successful in their jobs.

It starts with being humble.

And asking folks – what do you need? How can I help? If you had all the resources you need what would you do?

Jen

Goddess yes, humility and curiosity are the soft skills that fundraisers (and human beings) need to be intentional about…

Kimberley

If we set our ego aside and lift up others. Like program staff, executive director, board members, we create alliances around a positive vision for change. Then we spread that vision, empower action across the organization

get some quick wins and build on that.

That’s what happened with the Ruby appeal.

That is why that organization now has mind blowing growth and they have a solid fundraising program

Cool innovative idea + humility in house + positive results = win for everyone and the world changes…..or at least a small piece of it.

John

They obviously trusted you as well KM. you knew your stuff, I think you always do a good job at managing expectations… that’s why they are where they are now

Kimberley

Thanks john.

Imagine if we all could do that.

Simon

Imagine

Jen

Imagine!

OK lobsters

lots more to unpack…might need a do-over on this topic down the road!

John

roger.

Kimberley

I’m here anytime.

Jen

First, big thanks to our guest lobster, Kimberley… we appreciate you!

Kimberley

thanks for the invite. It’s fun hanging with you folks!

John

❤ Thanks KM

Jen

Lets we wind down with a lobster fact

And today it makes SO much sense for our lobster fact to be about…

MOLTING!

John

mmm

molting

Jen

Lobsters have a built-in process for change.

Simon

Wow

Great research

John

lol

Jen

Lobsters grow by molting. This is the process in which they struggle out of their old shells while absorbing water, which expands their body size. This molting, or shell-shedding, occurs about 25 times in the first 5–7 years of life.

John

just like Jen.

Simon

Are they happy about it tho?

Jen

So here’s where it gets even more interesting

Kimberley

okay – nice lobster fact Jen. Perfect!

There’s more?

John

ooo

Jen

KM, my fierce feminist friend, there is more

Female lobsters can only mate just after she has molted. Reproduction (and enjoyment of lobster sex) is ONLY possible because of change!

Simon

Like roleplay?

John

LOL

Jen

So those of you who watch the chatcast know that we often boot out the guest in a shocking way

but today…

*Jen Love removed Simon Scriver from the chat*

Jen

Simon gets removed for a dumb role playing joke

Feb.11: Where everybody is trying to get organised and one person gets their messy desktop outed

Simon

Hallo

Beate

hallo!

John

HAI

Jen

Haiiiiiiiieeee!

Simon

lol

How’s everyone?

Beate

I’m feeling good!

Just did a podcast-podcast earlier today, that was fun

Jen

Cold. It’s February and freezing up in here.

Beate

It’s february and NOT freezing up in here, which is alarming..

John

im in a deep pit of dispair but apart from that – peachy keen

Jen

Simon

Snowing here. And I’m all over the place

What’s a podcast-podcast?

Jen

So old school, Bea. Now who’s the old lady?

Beate

hah

Still you

😂

Beate

Isn’t that what Anne of Green Gables says, she’s in the depths of despair?

Very canadian

Jen

Speaking of old ladies, John is quoting Anne with an E

John

just in time for valentines day

Simon

So…

I have officially abandoned my bullet journal

No more BJs more me

John

what?

Simon

So was going to ask you guys this week about your organisational skills

John

ooohhh

Beate

THat didn’t last long!

Jen

that’s a short list but I’m ready

Simon

Since you cover the full spectrum of massively organised 🇳🇴 to massively gong showy 🇨🇦

John

nothing say click bait like talking about organizational skills

Simon

It’s all about the pull-out quote John

John

😮

Beate

So why did you abandon it, Simon?

Simon

Meh…I think it was the paper that got me

Well, the carrying it around

Beate

haha

Simon

I like it on my phone and computer

Beate

and did you use it as intented?

Simon

I mean yeh I did, but then did you know you’re also supposed to carry a pencil case?

With lots of pens and stencils and shit

Aint nobody got time for that

Beate

yeah if you’re a diehard

Simon

Trello is kind of working for me

Jen

We used Trello and really dug it… but just when it was perfect for us they were going to start to charge us

Beate

I like trello

Simon

Also if anyone mentions Slack I’m booting them out

Beate

I use a combination of trello, slack, google docs, email, calendar and paper

don’t boot me!

Simon

Trello is nice and simple. And I’m using dates on it now too and thats cool. And it’s free

Jen

it is free for a while.

We now use Freedcamp, on the recommendation of Cindy Wagman at Good Partnership

💯

Simon

Do you pull in clients and stuff to that?

Or is that just you and John sending each other messages

John

i use a notepad and a pen. you should see my desk

#gongshow

Simon

Why do you use pen and paper? You’re a digital guy

John

i dunno… cos i can literally cross somethng off my list when im done

sense of satsifaction

Simon

That is very satisfying

John

right?

Simon

And I love rewriting out a to do list

Starting fresh

Jen

Less satisfying for me. (the story of Jen)

Because when John needs to find something he digs around like a badger

John

vs – what? moving a tile? clicking a box? select and delete?

Simon

I feel like all these tools are moot. It’s more of a mindset?

Jen

TOTALLY a mindset

Simon

Does anyone actually have that mindset?

I feel like organised people are actually just deviants

Serial killers

John

lol

Jen

with the tools that work for you and your particular persnickety proclivities

Simon

wtf

Beate

For me:

Slack is for informal conversation and discussion. Showing off early designs, getting feedback, agreeing on what we should make.

Trello is for when we have the finished stuff, when we describe what needs to be made and hand it off for someone to make.

Email is for someone external to the project that we need, but not enough to include them in slack or trello.

Paper is for thinking out loud and making a today-list when I am overworked and need to make a list in order to get anything done.

Jen

I’d like to call out Bea’s use of Slack/Trello as a way to not get booted for mentioning Slack

Bea just broke my brain

John

she’s very on brand though – isnt she?

Beate

it works guys!

Simon

She’ll bury us all

Works for you

What’s your morning routine Beate?

Like how do you approach the day?

Beate

I’m really not very organised.

My day is work through my mailbox.

So whenever other people are involved, we need some kind of system – and that’s where slack and trello come in

Simon

Email or post?

Beate

POST??

John

do they have mailboxes in norway????

Beate

what kind of freak gets enough post that they work through it??

Jen

Queen Tammy Zonker said something recently that stuck with me. “Your email is a helpful container for other people’s priorities.”

John

word.

Beate

Yes! That’s why I try to use paper, and slack/trello for where other people are included

Simon

Tammy…that’s why she’ll always be the first lady of fundraising

Simon

Wagman was talking about setting aside time for emails. Like an hour a day or something. She even has that in her constant OOO

That’s out of office

Jen

Tammy is our Beyonce

Simon

Not, “oooo….organised”

Email is a bit of an annoying to do list

I LOVE the snooze on my email

Snooze that until tomorrow

Beate

Saaaaame!!

Snooze that shit

John

i need to do that

Simon

Snooze it until I’m dead

Beate

it’s the only thing that keeps me in any kind of control of my inbox

Jen

I’m a flagger. Don’t snooze but I flag the fuck out of things

Beate

On the WORST-list though:

fucking outlook!!

Jen

Outlook BAH

Beate

Outlook needs to die

Jen

Gmail/Mac Mail

Simon

Wow I forgot outlook existed. Havent used it in years

Beate

anyone who uses outlook as their email client is in a world of self inflicted pain for no reason at all

John

throw down… whoa

Simon

Nobody used outlook by choice

Beate

outlook is only used by people who have to because of their boss, or they don’t know better, or don’t want to change their habits

Simon

So Beate…you get up, you have a shower, you correct lots of people and then…what? You just work through trello and slack and email?

How do you motivate yourself to start?

Beate

oh god

By thinking about how much trouble I’ll be in if I don’t

Jen

“You correct lots of people” AMAZING

John

i need some help getting organized. my inbox, calendar, paper and brain are dumpster fire of stuff…

Simon

Haha

Fear is a good motivator

John

i cant keep on top of it all.

and im drowning in lists.

Simon

It’s hard. And then there’s you yahoos whatsapping me

Beate

hahah

at different timezones of appropriateness

Simon

I think my problem is multitasking

Like jumping around from thing to thing

Jen

Social media is a productivity plunge

And as Wagman pointed out you lose so much time in the change

John

im dead in the water the second i try to multitask.

Simon

I need to start single tasking

Beate

This is why I make paper lists when shit’s on fire. I can then keep that list in front of my eyes and go task-to-task

Simon

We’re men. We can’t multitask

Jen

#BITCHPLEASE

Simon

Jen it’s true

God didn’t give us that gift

John

he’s not too wrong you know

Jen

Don’t even with the gendered part of that

Beate

No one can multitask

Jen

I think my eyerolls might have caused a tsunami

Simon

Yeh maybe it’s a human thing

Jen

It’s a human thing

Simon

I’m going to start really boxing off one task at a time

One tab in chrome

Jen

OH

John

yahhh rrriiiggghhhttttt

Simon

Is that ridiculous?

Jen

I have a blog post started about that

Beate

I never have one tab

usually 3-7

more than that and I get a bit unnerved

Jen

Our gal Rory Green and I have talked about the whole idea of “close some tabs, will ya?”

For work AND life

Simon

Ha – “I have a blog post started about that”

Beate

The irony

😂

Jen

FAIR

Simon

Yeh I have minimum 5 tabs at all times

Jen

Those moments when you catch a glimpse of someone else’s browser or desktop

Simon

Organised chaos

Tara’s desktop

😂😂😂

Jen

I actually captured a photo of a very well known fundraiser and presenter whose desktop showed up at a conference

talking about a dumpster fire

Simon

I think I know who

Let’s call him Bernard X

Nooooo

Let’s call him Mr Ross

John

lol

🔥

Jen

HAHAHAHHA

Not even cheating the edit there, eh Simon?

Beate

What I really winds me up is those people who go: “Just clean your inbox, do them one at a time, tick stuff of your list, and you’ll feel sooooo much better”. It just makes me angry – I turn in to a 14 year old screaming “YEEES MUM I WILL CLEAN MY ROOM STOOOOP NAGGING I KNOOOOOOW!”

The serial killer people

the Inbox-zero-evangelists

Jen

Axe murderers. Same with people who tweet it.

“Zero inbox and off I go on vacay”

Beate

“Inbox zero🙂”

With the psychopath emoji

John

GFY. seriously.

Simon

Snooze is good for inbox zero

Beate

Yes

And folders

and archive/delete with easy access

Simon

This is the year I get organised

Beate

You just quit your bullet journal

😂

Simon

This is the year I get organised in a different way

Beate

hahah

Simon

Trello is working for me

And google calendar

Jen

This is a no shame chat…oh wait…sorry…wrong group

Simon

But you know the problem?

Other people

Beate

True

Simon

When you get your shit together and then suddenly childminder has to do something or someone phones you or whatever

Beate

or EMAILS YOU

throws their dirty socks on the floor

😒

Jen

WAIT I’m sure there is a way to say that in Norwegian

Beate

You just shout “ROTKAILL” after the dude who threw their socks on the floor😂

John

🧐

John

John, don’t even attempt it

Jen

Fucking right, I knew it@!

John

im sitting here trying

Simon

You know what I did which I love

Beate

I’m inserting Johns trying to say Donorlove in Norwegian here

Simon

I change my voicemail so it says dont leave me a voicemail

Jen

Let’s hear it!

John

WROTE-KAAAAIIIIII-LLLLL

Beate

Get wrid of the w and you’ve got it!

Jen

“Hey, It’s Simon, You missed me, so call me back and don’t leave a fucking message”

Simon

Yeh I basically just say please dont leave me a voicemail cos voicemails are terrible. Text me. Or dont

Jen

So next time I call you don’t pick up

Simon

Like really nothing is important enough. Even if someone’s dead, just let me chill out for a bit. I’ll find out eventually

Beate

Hey speaking of organised. Have you read that shit about how differently our brains are organised? How some people have a voice in their head narrating when they think/read, and others just …don’t..?

Simon

Beate

Which one are you?

Beate

I totally have a voice

Jen

Beate

My voice has a megaphone

John

I can attest to that

Beate

Like some people can’t speak to themselves in the mirror without speaking out loud and I DON’T UNDERSTAND!

Simon

I have someone else’s voice

Beate

Like what is your brain if it doesn’t have a voice, just a mush of images and vague concepts floating around?

Simon

Every time I go in to my psychiatrist they have to ask me if I’ve been hearing voices

Thankfully never have

Beate

Well that’s good

Simon

But I would rather that then use Slack

Beate

HAHAH!

You’re just one of those outlook people

Jen

Slack IS the “other” voice in your head

Beate

“oh I’ve always used it, it’s FINE”

Simon

Slack is like having everyone else’s voice in your head

Beate

But out of your emails, which is the better point

Jen

So Bea your voice is like an 8 track?

Beate

I’m a millennial, I don’t know what that is

Jen

oh shit just realized the old lady jen there

DAMN

Beate

Ok – lobster fact time?

Simon

Oh fuck I forgot it’s my lobster fact turn

John

lol

Beate

Just do a John and reuse one

but with different words

John

hey

😡

Simon

Anyone have one stored in Slack or Trello or a piece of fucking paper?

Have we done the one about lobsters smelling with their feet?

Beate

I don’t think so!

Simon

OK

Hey guys, guess what lobsters smell with?

Beate

Their noses?

John

their FEET!

Simon

Lobsters can be left-‘handed’, right-‘handed’ or ambidextrous, and have several receptors on their claws and their legs, which they use to locate and recognise any food that is around them.

Beate

Is it actually smell?

Simon

Wait, I feel like that contradicts the title of the fact

Beate

Or some other kind of function?

Simon

I’m not using this lobster fact site again

Beate

Left-feeted

John

im not sure how this fact relates to this conversation though

Beate

ambifeettrous

John

like jen?

Jen

this is a very rare gongshow and shitshow colliding!

Simon

Oh ok I have a relevant one and then we’ll finish

Beate

two lobster facts, bonus!

Simon

Lobsters are biologically immortal

Jen

LIKE JEN

Simon

They keep growing until they die

Beate

…what..?

Simon

So their approach to time is different from us

John

is the “like jen” thing solely Simon’s territory?

Beate

yeah, kinda

Simon

Lobsters don’t use Slack

John

HA

Jen

We should start a Slack thread

Beate

So – if no one steps on them or fishes them, they live forever??

or do they die from size?

🤯

Simon

No

John

norweigan over-fishing?

Simon

They stop growing when they die. If they didnt die they’d grow to an infinite size

They live until like 50

But one day

The way lobster healthcare is progressing

Beate

The immortal thing threw me

John

IMAGINE!

Simon

They’ll be huge

John

giant lobsters!

Simon

Yeh the immortal thing is misleading. Blame science naming people

Beate

another faulty name lobster fact

Simon

OK I have to go

Watch out for giant lobsters everyone

I’m late

John

adios

Beate

buh-bye 😘

Jen

Way to plan your time Simon

Simon

Jen

Byyyyeeeeeeeeeee

Feb. 4: Simon is ON FIRE, John refuses metrics. KPI’s are good and bad.

Beate

5.30 peeps!

John

*comes in and sits down…

Beate

welcome, welcome

We are two bozos short

John

lol

Simon

Hello

Beate

⏱👈🏼

John

#BALLBUSTERBEA

Beate

Jeeeeeen…?

Jennifer!

John

JLO?!?!

Jen

I’m here I’m here

oh good morning all!

Beate

ok! So. Our surprise guest host is stuck in a snowstorm, so it’s just the familiar lobsters today.

John

BOOO

Beate

I still want to talk about the stuff that we’re measuring. Metrics and KPI’s.

Any immediate hot takes?

Let’s get the rants out of the way first

John

ooooo sexy time

Jen

Measure what matters.

John

which is – your loving donors

not how much money they have you greedy batards

Beate

Love is not a metric, John.

John

it is in my world Beate.

ARE WE NOT HUMAN???!??!?!?!

Beate

I don’t know if that is sad or sweet

Simon

Measuring is weird because:

– It’s a pain in the arse.

– Usually we don’t have the time or knowledge.

– Most nonprofits don’t have the volume for measurement to mean anything.

– Benchmarking of others isnt necessarily relevant to your own situation.

– At the end of the day so many people believe their feeling over data.

Fin.

Mic drop

Oh shit that wasnt my mic it was my drink

Beate

Well. conversation over.

You just said it all.

John

good.

well done Simon.

Simon

Haha

Huge levels of sarcasm incoming, thank you

But really I have a lot of feelings on measurement

Beate

Wasn’t sarcasm, surprisingly!

Jen

All true Simon!

Beate

I’m of two minds. I measure everything, I spend far too much time on it. But:

When someone asks me “what can I expect from that”, and they have NEVER done anything like it, there are a thousand variables, and no prior knowledge, then how the fuck can we answer that question??

Jen

And the other part of the conversation is measuring over time. We are slaves to 12 month budgets

Simon

I remember when I started working in a small nonprofit and we had 2 monthly donors, and some marketing expert told me to split test

John

lol

#slowclap

Jen

Wait, wasn’t that John?

John

😐

Simon

Yes the 12 month trap again. But hard to say what the right span of time is

John

not everything in our world is a straight line

Simon

Nothing in our world is a straight line

John

humans dont move in straight lines

which is why a lot of what you’re trying to measure

cant be measured

Beate

i think metrics are a crutch sometimes

You don’t want to make a decision without knowing what it will lead to

but it’s the future – there’s no possible way to know for sure!

John

because it’s math. cant argue with that right?

Jen

You don’t want to be judged for what happens if you did’t get your metrics, or get them right

Simon

I remember someone tweeting a while ago the uncomfortable reality that there is no data to back up the entire advertising industry

Beate

hahah yes

I worked in sales for the yellow pages ages ago, and we used the old adage that “only 50% of marketing work, you just don’t know which half” (of course arguing our half did and we could measure it)

Simon

“What we can learn from the booming yellow pages industry”

John

I’ve got a post brewing how we are a sector tied up looking for definitives… which is why we have seen so little growth over the years…

there are very few definitives in this work…

Beate

Everybody out-ranted?

John

life has no guarentees

Beate

haha

so measuring dumb things is dumb

John

lol

Beate

What should we measure? what’s good use of kpi’s and metrics?

does anyone have a favourite kpi

😂

John

sigh.

Simon

I think a good rule is measure everything but not at the cost of doing

John

100% this.

Beate

wow mister hard truths and thought bombs today!

Simon

My brain is working well today, it’s true

Like you could spend your full week watching live google analytics

Beate

And so many do!

Simon

Oh its so much fun! I love watching the live stats

“Who is this Irish prick that has just been sitting on my homepage the whole time I’ve been watching the analytics?”

Beate

Usually yourself

honestly, when my former employer was doing tv ads for the month leading up to christmas, analytics live was my second screen for the entire month

had it on all the time

Jen

That makes my brain freeze

John

mine too partner

Jen

Imagine old lady Jen trying to decipher that shit with my glasses on the end of my nose and my tea or sherry spilling on the keyboard

Simon

👵🏼 “Google Ana…what?”

Beate

You don’t like watching numbers roll in?

it’s like counting money!

so much fun

John

ugh

Beate

but entirely unproductive

like it doesn’t change the amount of money in the pile

Jen

Other things I don’t watch “roll in”: election results

Beate

obsessively

I think it gives me a feeling of control

Working with people who make me wait a month for the numbers makes me itchy

Simon

I do like all that data and stats and election stuff and as it happens analytics

But the truth is…and I say this in a lot of chatcasts…nobody knows what they’re doing

Jen

Like Jen

Simon

Years ago tried to hook up google analytics and donation reports to a giant live screen that would blast over us like a boiler room

Beate

I actually did that and it was wonderful!

It made other people engage with the fundraising

So, what are GOOD metrics to keep an eye on?

John

for our clients – you got measure the bottom line of ALL the channels….

good individual fundraisng programs will see lifts everywhere…

Jen

This! Ideally for any given campaign you have print, online and in person/phone calls happening to raise money for X. Measure the totals, not the email vs appeal vs phone call and then decide what to keep and cut.

Simon

There’s a happy medium right? We need these stats fast, and we have to let them influence our decisions

Simon

But they’re not gospel

And taking action is more effective than analysing forever

John

just because I let you buy me a drink on our first date Simon doesnt mean I’ll marry you…

Simon

I do a great first date

Beate

And i think we need to have the confidence to only measure against ourselves and not always worrying how we stack up against everyone else

John

agree Beate.

Jen

THIS must not get lost in the dating analogies

Simon

Yes absolutely! Interesting and useful to look at others…but it’s not the final answer

Jen

we had some hilarious chats this year with clients about how they can’t compare to sick children or puppies…and what they were trying to raise money for was space exploration!

Everyone thinks their charity is the hardest to fundraise for, and that they still try to measure against their stiffest competition

Beate

hahaha

yep

I think the more uncertainty there is, the more people long for a metric that will tell them they’re doing the right thing.

Simon

The cause is always greener on the other side

John

exactly right.

Beate

“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted” <- donorlove

John

i’m happy to let the counters count… but i like to focus on doing MY part… i’ll let donors do THEIR part… whatever that might be

Beate

So do you use metrics much at all with clients in the day-to-day, or mostly long term?

Simon

More longterm…but keep an eye on the day to day to make the slight tweaks

But most of my clients are smaller so measurement is cautious

Jen

We review project to project and also review long games. Especially in legacy metrics, which we touched on over on twitter with Clare Levy

My Dad has an almost unintelligible legacy tracking spreadsheet but once you lean into it, it’s very valuable

Beate

What does he track?

Jen

Mostly engagement — other ways legacy donors are connected to your program. Which breaks brains sometimes but when you can actually measure it, very valuable

John

bit of both. of course with online and offline – you get data… which is infomrative.. but really – just cos the appeal about frogs didnt do well… what do you change? never talk about frogs again?

i ❤ frogs btw

but they do shit in testing

Jen

I call BULLSHIT

when have we ever tested frogs against something else?

Beate

Maybe you just made very bad frog appeals?

John

lol

Jen

Maybe John did bad frog appeals elsewhere?

All my frog appeals have fucking slayed

John

but DID YOU TEST IT?

Jen

Back to Simon’s 2 monthly donor split test….see? It IS John!

Simon

What’s mad is when we take test results as fact forever. I know people are still quoting one piece of thank you research from decades ago

John

same. that’s a REALLY dumb idea BTW…

Beate

yeah. or looking for “what works on facebook”, like, it changes on an hourly basis!

John

so friends – dont do that

Beate

Ok. So, let’s wrap up with a lobsterfact

and, I would like you to rate it out of ten

John

mmm

Beate

To provide a metric

John

i love lobster

i could take down 3 lobster rolls right now

Beate

here’s the fact, from our surprise host who is not here:

Lobsters have teeth in their stomach.

Simon

9

John

i’ve heard this

Beate

that is not a score, john

once again, you’ve missed the brief

Simon

Qualitative

John

what am i scoring FFS?

that i like it?

Jen

oh man, john…

Beate

“out. of. ten. ”

John

fucking 100

Jen

That’s a solid 9.5 fact

Beate

Interesting. Not what I had benchmarked as a kpi in advance

I was way off market

John

this is dumb. I’m leaving.