Feb. 4: Simon is ON FIRE, John refuses metrics. KPI’s are good and bad. Posted byBeate February 4, 2020February 4, 2020 Leave a comment on Feb. 4: Simon is ON FIRE, John refuses metrics. KPI’s are good and bad. Beate 5.30 peeps! John *comes in and sits down… Beate welcome, welcome We are two bozos short John lol Simon Hello Beate ⏱👈🏼 John #BALLBUSTERBEA Beate Jeeeeeen…? Jennifer! John JLO?!?! Jen I’m here I’m here oh good morning all! Beate ok! So. Our surprise guest host is stuck in a snowstorm, so it’s just the familiar lobsters today. John BOOO Beate I still want to talk about the stuff that we’re measuring. Metrics and KPI’s. Any immediate hot takes? Let’s get the rants out of the way first John ooooo sexy time Jen Measure what matters. John which is – your loving donors not how much money they have you greedy batards Beate Love is not a metric, John. John it is in my world Beate. ❤ ARE WE NOT HUMAN???!??!?!?! Beate I don’t know if that is sad or sweet Simon Measuring is weird because: – It’s a pain in the arse. – Usually we don’t have the time or knowledge. – Most nonprofits don’t have the volume for measurement to mean anything. – Benchmarking of others isnt necessarily relevant to your own situation. – At the end of the day so many people believe their feeling over data. Fin. Mic drop Oh shit that wasnt my mic it was my drink Beate Well. conversation over. You just said it all. John good. well done Simon. Simon Haha Huge levels of sarcasm incoming, thank you But really I have a lot of feelings on measurement Beate Wasn’t sarcasm, surprisingly! Jen All true Simon! Beate I’m of two minds. I measure everything, I spend far too much time on it. But: When someone asks me “what can I expect from that”, and they have NEVER done anything like it, there are a thousand variables, and no prior knowledge, then how the fuck can we answer that question?? Jen And the other part of the conversation is measuring over time. We are slaves to 12 month budgets Simon I remember when I started working in a small nonprofit and we had 2 monthly donors, and some marketing expert told me to split test John lol #slowclap Jen Wait, wasn’t that John? John 😐 Simon Yes the 12 month trap again. But hard to say what the right span of time is John not everything in our world is a straight line Simon Nothing in our world is a straight line John humans dont move in straight lines which is why a lot of what you’re trying to measure cant be measured Beate i think metrics are a crutch sometimes You don’t want to make a decision without knowing what it will lead to but it’s the future – there’s no possible way to know for sure! John because it’s math. cant argue with that right? Jen You don’t want to be judged for what happens if you did’t get your metrics, or get them right Simon I remember someone tweeting a while ago the uncomfortable reality that there is no data to back up the entire advertising industry Beate hahah yes I worked in sales for the yellow pages ages ago, and we used the old adage that “only 50% of marketing work, you just don’t know which half” (of course arguing our half did and we could measure it) Simon “What we can learn from the booming yellow pages industry” John I’ve got a post brewing how we are a sector tied up looking for definitives… which is why we have seen so little growth over the years… there are very few definitives in this work… Beate Everybody out-ranted? John life has no guarentees Beate haha so measuring dumb things is dumb John lol Beate What should we measure? what’s good use of kpi’s and metrics? does anyone have a favourite kpi 😂 John sigh. Simon I think a good rule is measure everything but not at the cost of doing John 100% this. Beate wow mister hard truths and thought bombs today! Simon My brain is working well today, it’s true Like you could spend your full week watching live google analytics Beate And so many do! Simon Oh its so much fun! I love watching the live stats “Who is this Irish prick that has just been sitting on my homepage the whole time I’ve been watching the analytics?” Beate Usually yourself honestly, when my former employer was doing tv ads for the month leading up to christmas, analytics live was my second screen for the entire month had it on all the time Jen That makes my brain freeze John mine too partner Jen Imagine old lady Jen trying to decipher that shit with my glasses on the end of my nose and my tea or sherry spilling on the keyboard Simon 👵🏼 “Google Ana…what?” Beate You don’t like watching numbers roll in? it’s like counting money! so much fun John ugh Beate but entirely unproductive like it doesn’t change the amount of money in the pile Jen Other things I don’t watch “roll in”: election results Beate obsessively I think it gives me a feeling of control Working with people who make me wait a month for the numbers makes me itchy Simon I do like all that data and stats and election stuff and as it happens analytics But the truth is…and I say this in a lot of chatcasts…nobody knows what they’re doing Jen Like Jen Simon Years ago tried to hook up google analytics and donation reports to a giant live screen that would blast over us like a boiler room Beate I actually did that and it was wonderful! It made other people engage with the fundraising So, what are GOOD metrics to keep an eye on? John for our clients – you got measure the bottom line of ALL the channels…. good individual fundraisng programs will see lifts everywhere… Jen This! Ideally for any given campaign you have print, online and in person/phone calls happening to raise money for X. Measure the totals, not the email vs appeal vs phone call and then decide what to keep and cut. Simon There’s a happy medium right? We need these stats fast, and we have to let them influence our decisions Simon But they’re not gospel And taking action is more effective than analysing forever John just because I let you buy me a drink on our first date Simon doesnt mean I’ll marry you… Simon I do a great first date Beate And i think we need to have the confidence to only measure against ourselves and not always worrying how we stack up against everyone else John agree Beate. Jen THIS must not get lost in the dating analogies Simon Yes absolutely! Interesting and useful to look at others…but it’s not the final answer Jen we had some hilarious chats this year with clients about how they can’t compare to sick children or puppies…and what they were trying to raise money for was space exploration! Everyone thinks their charity is the hardest to fundraise for, and that they still try to measure against their stiffest competition Beate hahaha yep I think the more uncertainty there is, the more people long for a metric that will tell them they’re doing the right thing. Simon The cause is always greener on the other side John exactly right. Beate “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted” <- donorlove John ❤ i’m happy to let the counters count… but i like to focus on doing MY part… i’ll let donors do THEIR part… whatever that might be Beate So do you use metrics much at all with clients in the day-to-day, or mostly long term? Simon More longterm…but keep an eye on the day to day to make the slight tweaks But most of my clients are smaller so measurement is cautious Jen We review project to project and also review long games. Especially in legacy metrics, which we touched on over on twitter with Clare Levy My Dad has an almost unintelligible legacy tracking spreadsheet but once you lean into it, it’s very valuable Beate What does he track? Jen Mostly engagement — other ways legacy donors are connected to your program. Which breaks brains sometimes but when you can actually measure it, very valuable John bit of both. of course with online and offline – you get data… which is infomrative.. but really – just cos the appeal about frogs didnt do well… what do you change? never talk about frogs again? i ❤ frogs btw but they do shit in testing Jen I call BULLSHIT when have we ever tested frogs against something else? Beate Maybe you just made very bad frog appeals? John lol Jen Maybe John did bad frog appeals elsewhere? All my frog appeals have fucking slayed John but DID YOU TEST IT? Jen Back to Simon’s 2 monthly donor split test….see? It IS John! Simon What’s mad is when we take test results as fact forever. I know people are still quoting one piece of thank you research from decades ago John same. that’s a REALLY dumb idea BTW… Beate yeah. or looking for “what works on facebook”, like, it changes on an hourly basis! John so friends – dont do that Beate Ok. So, let’s wrap up with a lobsterfact and, I would like you to rate it out of ten John mmm Beate To provide a metric John i love lobster i could take down 3 lobster rolls right now Beate here’s the fact, from our surprise host who is not here: Lobsters have teeth in their stomach. Simon 9 John i’ve heard this Beate that is not a score, john once again, you’ve missed the brief Simon Qualitative John what am i scoring FFS? that i like it? Jen oh man, john… Beate “out. of. ten. ” John fucking 100 Jen That’s a solid 9.5 fact Beate Interesting. Not what I had benchmarked as a kpi in advance I was way off market John this is dumb. I’m leaving. Did this chat make you laugh? Or think? Find us annoying? You should totally share that with your friends.