*Jen Love added Steven Screen to the chat.*
Simon
Hello Mr Screen
Steven
Hello Simon!
Thanks for having me on.
Simon
We love ya!
You managing through all this?
Steven
Yup. It’s hard, but weirdly satisfying too – it’s wonderful to be so helpful to orgs right now.
Jen
How is island life with small children during a global pandemic, Steven?
Steven
Island life is great. Distance from the big outbreak in the city is lovely. Just the challenges of homeschooling three little ones!
You and yours?
Jen
My teenagers are getting dumber by the minute with endless vids… Luckily they are beautiful, bright, white and rich so in the long run we’ll still be fine. Soooo feeling my privilege right now
Simon
All grand here. Managing! Some things really good and some a bummer
Steven
So do you guys do this whole thing via your phones?
Jen
#gongshow
Simon
We recommend laptop but I’m prob gonna be on my phone today
Jen
Ooooh Steven you lucky earlybird… sometimes we don’t tell our guests this but it is a million times easier if you use the laptop version
Simon
Generally whoever is on their phone gets lambasted by the others for being slow
Steven
OK, so how do I do this on a laptop?
John
Just press any key
John
PERFECT JOHN
Steven
Downloading now. But I can’t find the any key.
This is being typed exponentially faster from my computer.
John
Simon
Right?
Jen
So now when you look back at the other chats you can tell who knew (Lesley) and who didn’t (Mark)
Steven
I’m going to take my President’s approach and say that everything that happened before I got here was done very poorly, just a tragedy really, and the laud myself for doing just a very fantastic job.
*Jen removed Steven Screen from the chat*
*Jen added Steven Screen to the chat*
Jen
Let that be your one and only warning, SCREEN
Steven
Boundaries noted.
?
Jen
Bea? Are you here? Are you in some kind of weird Norwegian quarantine with your parents…oh yeah… you are
I’m messaging Bea privately and she might be ghosting us
Leaving me on Delivered…
John
Ooof
Beate
Jesus, 44 messages before I even have a chance to log on, we’re not at the time yet
I’m here, I’m here!
Jen
Hey Bea!
Beate
Heeey
Steven
I’m half norwegian.
Jen
OH FUCK that’s the end of this chat
Beate
Are you??
❤️❤️❤️
John
im like 4% norweigan
14% swedish
Jen
Guys, I just took a DNA test and turns out
…
I’m 100% that bitch
John
HAR HAR
Steven
HAHA
Hi Beate, and you bet. My Mom was a Clauson.
Simon
Beate
Norwegians unite
❤️
Jen
OK quick Norwegian love affair before we start…WTF is a Clauson
Beate
It’s a name
John
30% Russian German…
Steven
Translated it means “Super duper smart but very humble”
Simon
Steven how many pieces of bread do you use in a sandwich?
Beate
Hahahah!
Only one right answer to this question
A lot rides on it
John
1!
Beate
Yeeeesss!!!!!
Simon
?
Steven
Um, 1?
John
1.
Jen
OK OK reeling this in like I might reel in a crate of lobsters
Hello hello and welcome to our very special guest Mr. Steven Screen…
Steven
Honored to be here!
Beate
Mister Norwegian Steven Screen, welcome!
John
the silver fox
❤️
Steven
You guys are the best
Jen
So I’ve hijacked John’s hosting because I felt it was the right time to bring in my man Steven… to talk about vulnerability in fundraising
Not to brag (bragging) but I posted something recently about vulnerability, and so did Steven, and it’s clear that lots of our colleagues out there are thinking about and reflecting on how to connect with donors right now
Steven and I have been working for the past year or so on this idea that a secret key to fundraising is vulnerability…
Simon
Love it
Jen
Steven, do you want to take a minute (and we will be watching your typing) and talk about why we need vulnerability RFN?
Steven
Absolutely!
Beate
Don’t waste our time with an “absolutely” man
We only have 30 minutes, get to the real typing!
John
Jen
Speaking of being vulnerable, Steven is now getting chirped!
John
LOL
Beate
While typing so he can’t fight back
Jen
Sit down, John and Bea…
John
i don;t even think he;s typing
Steven
Organizations have egos, as do the people who work in them. And humans don’t particularly like to feel vulnerable. What results are fundraising communications where it doesn’t actually sounds like donors are NEEDED.
Beate
Ooh
Jen
YASSSSSSS
Beate
Nicely put
Jen
Charities saying “here’s what we’re doing, here’s how we’re responding” … leaving no space for donors?
Beate
Because we have to sound like we’re on top of things, right..
Steven
But when Organizations practice vulnerability – ask their donors to help *as if the organization really needs the help* — donor’s respond in droves.
John
why don’t humans or orgs like to feel vulnerable?
Beate
Because it leaves you open to pain and ridicule
John
does it though?
Beate
Well, not really, but that’s what we’re afraid of I think. That’s what it feels like.
Jen
Yes, when you are vulnerable you are open to judgment, criticism…or at least you feel that way
Steven
We want to sound like we’re on top of things. Makes us feel better about ourselves. But that’s a massive mistake because our organizations were founded to help others, not the people who work in them. Founders get this, but often successive generations of employees do not.
(This is why it’s usually so great to work for a founder.)
To John’s point, it doesn’t leave you open to pain and ridicule as much as you fear it will. But fear sets the boundary, not data.
Jen
Oh wow…fear sets the boundary
John
it sure does
well said
Beate
My former colleague said that we are afraid to write real and authentic – write with emotion – because in order to do that we have to feel those emotion. And any criticism to our writing then feels like criticism of ourselves and that hurts.
Jen
And there is an irony to the fact that founders probably had a legit fear of going out there to say “we need to stand up for abused women”… that was vulnerability in its purest form… all orgs were founded by some version of that… lovely
Simon
Is it sustainable for a fundraiser to feel everything they write?
Beate
Good question
Simon
Thanks Beate
Jen
I think Steven and I are the wrong people to ask
Steven
Agree with Beate.
Jen
Feelings are facts in my house
I don’t know how to write if I’m not feelings my feelings
John
it is – but it comes with a cost
just as it does being a vulnerable human in our real life
Jen
Wait, is this an intervention?
Beate
Hahah
Simon
It’s why you’re both silver foxes
John
haha
Jen
❤ it’s why the 3 of us are…
Steven
Great question. I don’t think a fundraiser has to feel everything they write. I know I don’t. I often feel like I”m writing in the third person, sitting above the copy and maneuvering the emotions and emotional triggers around to do what I want them to do.
Beate
I know my writing is definitely best when there is real emotion either on my part or the part of the person who’s voice I’m writing in. If not, it’s just sorting following the recipe and it can get dull, there’s no blood flowing to it.
But you can get pretty far with the recipe too!
Jen
See? Steven and I approach our craft entirely differently, but we both come back to the same core: vulnerability. I’m feeling it all and it sometimes wrecks me. Steven sees it all and experiences it entirely differently!
Steven
Agree that writing is most powerful when there is real emotion. But theoretically that emotion is only present in order to trigger emotion in the donor.
I love how Jen and I do this differently – but see so much value in the other’s approach.
Jen
100% same. And it’s part of what makes this whole conversation about vulnerability unique — everyone can come at it from their own place, perspective and plan!
Beate
What a love fest this is?
John
no kidding
Steven
And the ‘recipe’ is the real skill that we need to be teaching. Because with the recipe even someone who isn’t willing to feel — or doesn’t even know that that means or why someone should feel — can still create effective fundraising.
Beate
This conversation is extra timely now – I see so many organisations refusing to admit that this crisis is hard for them!
Or they don’t want to cause fear (fair enough)
Jen
OK, Steven, break that down for me. You’re a fundraiser and you’re working on the next appeal.
How do we move the needle on teaching this skill set?
Steven
And masking their inability to Ask by saying things like “I don’t think we should be taking advantage of people to raise money right now” and other dreck.
Beate
Yes!
Not necessarily inability, but fear of asking I’d say
Steven
Yes, that’s what I meant to communicate.
Beate
Even for those who have done this for many many years, it still feels good to have an excuse not to ask!
Jen
That’s the first step, isn’t it? Making sure that the chief exec or board chair isn’t allowing their own fears to come into play… “this doesn’t sound like me”, “I don’t talk like that”…even in simpler (non global pandemic times) we hear that…
Beate
How do you do that?
Steven
Overly simple outline to ‘breaking it down’ for Jen:
#1, make sure leadership isn’t hung up by own issues (story about money and/or fundraising).
#2, Understanding that they are doing direct response, not “fundraising.”
#3, understanding that there are tried and true approaches/outlines/recipes that they should follow,
#4, picking the most appropriate recipe and pouring heart/soul/art into that.
Jen
YES! What he just said!
Steven
THis is the part of our business that’s more like Therapy than anything else.
Beate
So much of what we do is just professional therapy..
John
this is my ongoing problem with stupid branding guidelines and nonsense…
Jen
Comes from the same place: control, approve, sanitize.
John
exactly.
like steven said – this is direct response not fucking advertising
Steven
Truth truth truth
Beate
Well brand guidelines are also to be recognisable to everyone you deal with..
Jen
Here at the Agents we’ve replaced all our speaking/training with therapy…
Steven, wow, time is flying here…
Steven
No one has sniped me for several minutes!
Beate
Enjoy it pal
Before you know it you’ll be booted
John
we started late since beate wanted to talk about how norweigan we all were
Beate
Always worth the time
Jen
?
Steven
LOL
Simon
Haha
Jen
I wanted to just give some space to share a few examples of how we’ve seen and heard from charities who say to us “wow, we used some of these techniques and our results are up….”
Certainly in the last few months, and with increasing frequency in current times, we hear from folks saying, “this was uncomfortable but we did it and it worked”
is that the vulnerability lesson?
Steven
Absolutely. They were scared to try it – felt risky — but they did it.
Beate
???? to bravery
Vulnerability = bravery
Can’t have one without the other
John
being vulnerable – as im hoping we uncovered – ISN’T RISKY
Beate
Feels risky
Steven
It’s the Brene Brown quote on Vulnerability, something like ‘vulnerability sounds like troth and feels like courage. they aren’t comfortable but they’re never weakness.”
Jen
YES! Dr. Brene Brown wouldn’t typo troth but Steven is right…
Beate
Hahahah
Steven
But it’s a GOOD risky. What’s even more risky is doing things like ‘we’re going to innovate’!
Jen
Here’s what Dr Brene Brown said: “Vulnerability sounds like truth and feels like courage. Truth and courage aren’t always comfortable, but they’re never weakness.”
Beate
I was wondering what on gods green earth troth means?
Jen
Troth sounds kinda viking…
Beate
Kinda yes
Steven
“troth” is a Norwegian term. You wouldn’t understand.
Jen
Oh my “kick you out” finger is feeling very twitchy and itchy…
But we are at our half hour time slot… anyone else want to comment or ask our man Steven a question?
John
Steven
Jen
As I say in my interviews “anything we didn’t cover that you want to share?”
John
How do you stay so trim?
Simon
Ha
Steven
Well John (ha!) mostly good fortune. Eating gluten and dairy free at home. And riding my bike to work.
Jen
OK, let me rephrase
Beate
We can’t all live that Isle life
John
❤
Jen
Any *important or useful* questions?
John, my kick out finger is itchy and twitchy
John
hey – that was a vulnerable question
Jen
Fair. And also, fuck off.
Steven
Here’s my question for you guys . . .
Most of us get to work with people who are vulnerable; they know there is a different way to do fundraising. They’d like to try it and are even willing to be held accountable to doing it. That’s great. But how do we figure out how to work with the people and orgs who aren’t vulnerable? Who needs it but doesn’t see it yet?
Beate
Oh.
Good one..
Jen
Yeahhhh that is a good question!
Beate
I guess I usually find I can’t make good results for them if they won’t listen. And then the relationship naturally ends at some point
John
for me – it’s all about expectations when talking to new clients
Jen
John, please unpack
John
drawing a line in the sand. this is why we need to consider doing it this way… here’s the proof it works…
and if you can’t work this way then we likely can’t do great work together
Steven
What can we do/create/put out there that would help people expand their story about what’s possible in fundraising. And knowing that it’s probably not facts that are going to convince them?
John
i know for me it’s constantly showing examples and sharing stories of the amazing things that happen when you are a vulnerable org
Steven
This is great thinking and policy. We’re getting better and better and doing this with clients before we start working with them
Jen
I think I said this before the chat started, but in the Love family homes, Feelings Are Facts. I honestly have that on an embroidered pillow in my home.
Beate
Show them other work
When it’s not their brand on it, everyone thinks it’s brilliant
Steven
So true. Because they aren’t accountable and haven’t had to push through the fear to do it.
Jen
Ok, let’s keep the conversation going about bringing more charities onside with vulnerability…
But to close, our lobster fact!
Lobsters are sensitive creatures.
Simon
Awww
John
that;s it?
Jen
It is common among mammals to be able to anticipate and avoid pain.
dude, every time you’re fucking rushing my facts
it’s story time
Simon
Anticipate pain
Beate
So profound
Jen
chill out
anyway
Beate
? ❤️
Simon
Poor little fuckers
Jen
it was mostly thought that only vertebrates could have the reasoning it requires to anticipate and avoid pain
but…not with lobsters
Despite their knight-like appearance, lobsters are actually sensitive and delicate animals. Although they can’t see or hear very well they do have an exquisite sense of touch, thanks to hundreds of thousands of tiny hairs that stick out from gaps in their shells. Lobsters are also sensitive to changes in temperature — detecting temperature shifts as small as one degree — which is partly why they migrate up to 160 kilometres every year to find the perfect breeding ground for their fragile babies. This certainly puts death in a scalding pot into perspective.
Steven
*please please let them keep going*
John
so is grilling them better than boiling them?
Beate
Oh my god, John ?
Jen
NOW you can chirp me about whether you’re satisfied JOHN
Simon
Are there some kinky lobsters who are into it?
Beate
Oh my god, Simon ?
John
I’m never satisfied Jen – that’s what makes me so good.
*Jen removed John Lepp from the chat*
Simon
lol
Jen
Fuck that noise.
Beate
Ok bye?
Jen
Anyway, sometimes we decide to kick out the non guest. We’re all vulnerable, baby!
*Jen added John Lepp to the chat*
Simon
Yeh John was the least vulnerable so should be punished
John
Sigh
Jen
It all comes from a place of love and learning
Steven
I feel like I’ve just had a chance to play with the varsity Banter Team. And I know I’m still JV.
Beate
I only know what 50% Of that sentence means
Jen
Try it in Norwegian!
Steven
John you can come over. We’re having clams tonight.
John
NICE!
Jen
Anyway, that was fun and action packed. Thank you, Steven!
John
thanks Steven!
Steven
Thank YOU for having me!
Beate
Tusen takk Steven!
??
Jen
❤
Steven
The only thing I know how to say in Norwegian is “I love you” which isn’t quite appropriate at the moment. So I’ll say THANKS!
Beate
Thats what i said..
John
❤
Simon
❤️
John
now off for an opened faced sandwich
Simon
I’m off for a quick bread sandwich
Steven
Be well!
Simon
Thanks Steven. Mind yourself x
Jen
OK Steven, joked about this but here’s where we remove you from the group. Lots of love and be well and stay in touch! ❤
*Jen removed Steven Screen from the chat*
Jen
tap tap tap….added my man Steven Screen ❤