March 11: Andy is very young.

*Beate added Andy King*

Beate

Hey! Just trying to get on the wifi – hang on. Is everyone here?

John

im not everyone. but i am here.

Andy

I am also present

John

WORD UP ANDY

welcome

Andy

HI FRIENDS

Feel like I’ve MADE IT

Jen

You have buddy!!! Welcome!

Simon? Are you driving or parking or some shit?

Beate

Or ignoring us?

Jen

Andy, Simon is by FAR the sketchiest Lobster in terms of how he rolls into our chatcast

John

mmm lobster rolls

i think Simon is still off maasterminding world domination

Andy

I feel like you should’ve expected that going into this tbf

Simon

This is harrison dada is driveing

Jen

SEE?

John

oh sweet lord

Beate

Harrison, make your dad pull over!

Simon

Sure!

Andy

Harrison how was the sonic movie?

Simon

👍

Beate

😂

John

still feeling on top of the world Andy? welcome to the jungle

Beate

Okay so topic as per Andys suggestion: How every fundraiser always thinks the grass is greener – other causes are easier to fundraise for. Andy – wanna start with your thoughts?

John

is this thing on?

Beate

yes

John

wow. nice intro Beate

Beate

Listen – I’ve said I’m not following the standards you and jen ar setting

I don’t have to turn this thing on – it’s a chat. I just start

John

hohoho

Jen

Hey this is also a unique chatcast because Bea and I are together! In Norway!

Beate and Jen in winter jackets and hats, in front of a very old wooden building covered in snow

Andy

It’s definitely something I’ve noticed in the last couple of months… one of the first conversations I have with a lot of people is about how their cause is either difficult to communicate or not as ‘hot topic’ as it could be. Today I had a mental health charity tell me they ‘wish they were a cancer charity’ for example

And I just think people often stop seeing the wood for the trees and need to engage with how awesome their charity is, rather than what it’s not, y’know?

Beate

WAIT STOP THE TOPIC! WE FORGOT TO MAKE FUN OF ANDY FOR BEING YOUNG!

Andy

HAHAHA

Jen

Andy’s typing speed is 1000000x faster than that joker Mark Phillips

Andy

I’m as old as fundraising UK and that’s an institution I’ll be having none of this

Jen

Ahh to be young

Beate

Jazz hand greeting from live chatcast in same room! No handshakes.

Jen and Beate inside smiling at the camera, Jen waving Jazz Hands

Beate

Back to topic: I think when you say something’s easier to raise money for, they’re also forgetting that that means the work is that much bigger

Jen

We had a hilarious convo in Colorado this year about how charities always think other causes are easier. And 2 in the room was the Space Foundation and a charity that uses horses for therapy healing

Everyone else almost broke their eyeballs with eyerolls

Andy

10000% this

John

haha…. i forgot about the horse one…

Jen

John was like: “you’ve got space!”

Beate

hahah

John

yah “space” is easy…

Jen

“rocketships and planets and astronauts and shit”

Beate

I have a friend who raises money for fucking marshes. Which NO ONE has fond memories of.

Rubber boots stuck in the wet shit

dirty socks

trudging across one fearing for your life😒

Jen

I just punched Bea

Beate

ow! whyyyy

Jen

I love wetlands!

frogs and salamanders and songbirds and shit

Beate

Did you seriously have fun in a wetland as a kid when you had to trek across one in the rain and your boots got stuck??

Jen

That was more fun than many Love family adventures.

John

Andy – isn’t it US – the fundraisers that make this so hard for or on ourselves?

what we raise money for is complicated

how we go about it is complicated

Andy

100%

People may not love marshes but they do love the planet.

John

the people who ask us to do it want it complicated

Andy

We decide to raise money for what rather than why so complications ensue

John

YES BF

Jen

So young and so bright!

Beate

oooh nominate for lightbult moment of the year 2020

Beginners luck?

Andy

😂😂😂

John

i have yet to enccounter a charity anywhere that has said to me – you know John – what we do is simple…

Beate

haha

yea

Jen

It’s also a story we tell ourselves because it’s harder to admit other problems like leadership or budgets or boards…? maybe?

Andy

100%. When you ask someone what they do and they take a deep breath in and you just go ‘oh heeeere we go’

John

exactly.

Jen

Right? Like “buckle up for the bitching”

Beate

kind of what I do when someone ask me what I do😂

how do you describe what the fuck a fundraiser is in a language that doesnth have a word for it

Andy

I mean that is. Fair challenge.

John

so

how can we make this a helpful conversation for people?

Andy

I think there’s definitely an excuse culture too. Like telling ourselves we’re too old to type faster 😉

Beate

heyheyhey!

No mocking of the typing speed of this group dude

Jen

Dude that was borderline to be booted from this chat. I’ve got grey hair now and I’m not fucking around.

Andy

Hahaha I like to live dangerously

Beate

young stupidity

Jen

Andy DANGER King

Beate

Dandy

John

how long have you and beate been drinking for Jen?

Beate

We’re….not!

Beate

well except that one beer for lunch

Jen

🙌

John

🧐

Beate

well, Jen had two

Jen

True.

Andy

I guess it’s about noticing the people who are owning their cause and what they’re doing with it?

Beate

totally!

Jen

We also have to talk about the fact that staff turnover and new learning curves plays a huge role in this

Beate

Also to stop thinking that your yardstick is wordl domination

or that you should convince the world at large to support you

Rather than look at what the strength of your particular cause is, and finding those who already think that is really important

Andy

You definitely see people try a scattergun/mass appeal approach rather than a focused few and trying to resonate with them.

Jen

Totally Bea. Focus on the donors that love you and not all those who don’t.

Andy

Which I totally get. It’s totally how I play video games – spray and pray.

Beate

hahah

the difference: that FUCKING WORKS in video games!

I always beat the boys at fighting games with spray and pray. The boys did not like it.

I was accused of cheating.

Andy

(Still waiting for Simon to fight me on smash bros)

Jen

My 15 year old son would give you a run for your money.

Beate

they’re pretty close in age, too

Andy

Hahahah

John

Like this:

The donor pyramide, but shaped like a heart. The top two thirds of the heart has 'donors who care. a lot', the second third says 'donors who care. a little' and under the bottom line it says 'donors who don't care yet'.

Jen

NICE with the slides!!! #keener

John

the new donor pyramid?

not really new anymore

Beate

💞

Andy

Oooh I LOVE this

John

helps you decide where to spend your time and effort right?

Beate

For sure

Andy

One charity I’ve worked with used to nail it by just ensuring all beneficiary feedback, where appropriate, was circulated round all staff on a daily basis

We had stories and a sense of meaning pouring out of our EARS

John

Jen

Beate

If you’re a cancer charity, don’t worry about people who give to puppies. And if you’re a puppy charity don’t worry about child sponsorships. And if you’re the marshes people, only worry about Jen and forget everyone else

(don’t punch me again)

Jen

No promises.

John

that’s right becasue there are people who care about the puppies. and people who care about the marshes. and people who care… etc

Andy

I look forward to hearing about all the marsh based direct mail Jen receives in the coming weeks

Jen

Imagine! That would be amazing. If chatcast became a prospecting pool for our colleagues.

John

chatcast TM

Beate

a shit business idea with only four prospects in the pool

John

does anyone else get the feeling that harrison didnt pass along the “dad pull over message”?

Beate

hahahah

Siiiiimon?

He’s gonna do a John

“Alright, we’re wrapping up” “Hey guys, I’m here, where are we?”

John

ha

John

i’d like to see that – or he’ll show up just to boot andy off.

Andy

This seems on brand

Beate

So does anyone have a cause that they secretly think “wow that must be tough to fundraise for!”?

Whether they’ve succeded or not I guess

John

the ones i think of- – i jsut look at them and go – how can they possibly raising any money with this crap

Andy

I will admit, my heart goes out to domestic abuse charities

Jen

I think ones that are about helping offenders and/or prisoners when they come back into communities gotta be a tough slog

Beate

Why do you think they’re hard to raise money for, Andy?

Andy

I think there’s such a ‘I’d NEVER get myself in that situation’ misinformation out there & it’s a difficult topic to get people to engage with

John

interesting.

Andy

You hear it takes someone, on average, 5.5 years to leave an abusive relationship

And some people think ‘well I wouldn’t deal with it for a day’

Beate

Does our newly established rule still go though? That would only true if you’re trying to raise money from *anyone* rather than those who really care about that cause?

Andy

Maybe – hard to say.

Jen

Could be. Also could be that one donor said one thing one day and it became amplified… that old chestnut about “donor complaints”

Beate

What about prisoners reform, like Jen said?

Jen

Yah, I know it’s important work, and some people will really care about it, but can’t be easy

Beate

If Simon was here, he could tell his story about how those causes are good to ask for foundation money for

Andy

I see Beate’s point though – there is definitely an audience prime to support them, and an audience who would be a waste of time

Beate

Okay guys – entering wrap up phase

Andy

Foundations are made up of people too, though, so it still has to resonate

Beate

What’s the most golden fundraising opportunity?

top of the pyramid?

Is there one?

Jen

it will be the one closest to each fundraiser’s heart.

either that or sick puppies stuck in space

Beate

💕

John

Beate

good conclusion

Andy

Won’t ANYBODY think of the PUPPIES

Beate

okay ready for lobster fact?

John

im ready

Beate

okay. It’s not topical.

Jen

lobster fact! lobster fact!

Beate

It IS however timely

and what times are we living in currently?

Jen

pandemic?

Beate

yup

Andy

😬

Beate

There is a lobster disease called epizootic shell disease

(epizootic is a funny word)

John

wtf?

Beate

It’s a bacterial infection that makes lobsters impossible to sell as food, eating away at their shells and sometimes killing them.

Andy

That’s it. I’m fundraising for lobsters.

Beate

hahaha

Jen

💯

Beate

For this excellent joke, we will keep you un-booted and boot Simon instead

Andy

Hahahaha

*Jen Love removed Simon Scriver from the chat*

Beate

hohohoh

Jen

I hope i didn’t just traumatize Harrison

“dada….DADA….your friends!!!!”

Beate

Alright guys. Jen and I have excellent food to eat and wine to drink and fundraisers to entertain and learn to and from and surfaces to disinfect

gotta go!

love love love

Jen

Nice work Andy!

Andy

Enjoyyyy

💜

That was really fun, thanks for inviting me

🥰

John

thanks andy!

Beate

thanks for coming, great to have you 😁

Jen

You’re welcome back anytime, and you’ll outlive us all so you can carry the torch…

Beate

*done*

There, happy John? I turned it off.

John

meh

Jen

OK Andy now we are going to boot you and bring Simon back in. Byeeeeeeeee

*Jen Love added Simon Scriver to the chat*

*Jen Love removed Andy King from the chat*

Simon

Sorry!

March 3: Corona virus – how will it impact charities?

John

RECORD BUTTON – ACTIVATED!

welcome to a brand new #chatcast friends

Jen

Bea this time next week I’ll be landing in Oslo!!!

John

it’s a bright new day and today i thought we should chat about everyone’s HOT topic : CORONAVIRUS and it’s implications on our sector in the days ahead

Beate

No Jen, you won’t – that will have been yesterday

😂

Jen

Right! Time zones and dates are my kryptonite!

Beate

And directions

Sorry John – will try not to derail any more!

Jen

Thank you for hosting today, John? What’s on your mind?

John

Simon cant join us since – he came down with something…

so

Beate

Is Simon quarantined?

John

its just three lobsters today

Beate

coronalobster

John

he should be.

Beate

permanently

Jen

it would be a safer option if he was quarantined

John

i will try to resist making light of this TOO much – since – that’s usually simons job and two…

this is pretty serious

Beate

Yeah

Jen

pandemics usually are

John

we have colleagues who are literally locked awauy

Beate

Same

and i was in a meeting with THEIR colleagues today…

I made them stand in the corner

John

I talked to my pal Giovanna – who lives in Milan yesterday

everything is shut down there

she said “Schools are closed and most people are working from home these weeks. Cinemas, theatres, museum, bars and churches had to close. All public events are being cancelled over the next two- three months. ”

Jen

what’s spreading faster, the virus or the panic?

John

I would say both!

John

so i do have a couple specific things we can gab about

one is legacy gifts and the other is premiums…

which one do we unpack first

Jen

from the sublime to the ridiculoyus

John

are you new here Jen?

Beate

i don’t think there’s panic

Jen

Definitely lots of stockpiling stories on the news

Beate

I think there’s a measured and serious response to what IS very serious – even if most of us will be perfectly fine.

John

i hope youre right BEATE

Jen

she usually is

Beate

The whole managment team of one of our orgs over here is currently quarantined after meeting with a confirmed case (before they were confirmed).

Obviously, that’s going to impact some stuff.

John

right?

Jen

one of our clients is travelling at the end of the month and has already been told that working from home is likely

Beate

But I think the larger impact is going to be on the expectation of panic and unrest.

LIke, if you anticipate the economy tanking – are you going to spend your money on donations?

Jen

my brother in law (works in tech) has had all his travel suspended until end of april at the earliest

John

as a direct mail fella – i’ve wondered for those collageues of ours

who heavily rely on premiums (from china) in the direct mail

what if shipments of labels stop getting shipped

Beate

Shipments are seriously impacted

John

this is a real question BTW

lol

Beate

It’s really slow getting goods shipped out of China at the moment

That’s not about stopping spread, it’s about people in actual china doing the shipping being sick or quarantined

serious answer

Jen

i care much more about the medicine that is not going to be shipped, but defo premiums will be impacted

John

so – you have a heavy premium acqusiiton program in Australia… now what?

Jen

what will be the impact on charities who rely on that form of donor acquisition?

John

exactly

aside from the obvious

Beate

Maybe a good time to rethink and test non-premium aquisition and rely on quality and connection instead…?

🔥

Jen

YES! that would be a wonderful outcome

Beate

or hey – disease doesn’t spread through the web!

throwback to last weeks chatcast

John

so

maybe this virus is a good thing?

didnt they show the air in CHINA was better because of all the quarentines?

Beate

Yeah, drastcially

Seriously though, I do think we should all think through which parts of our programs might get impacted, what events might we have to change, what goods and services might not get delivered, etc, and plan accordingly.

And for gods sake have insurance if you rely on event income

Figure out who can and cannot work from home, how often does the office get cleaned properly, have routines.

John

i think there is a lot of – how bad is this going to get?

Jen

and this is just about fundraising. what about program staff on the ground in different parts of the world–some charities will have to change their programs

John

but good advice Beate.

Beate

Same for program delivery – how can this impact us if the worst happens.

Like Jen just said 🤦🏻‍♀️

Jen

i know you wanted to talk about legacies too john

but we have to also consider what will happen to larger fundraising conferences

John

let’s talk about conferences first

Beate

We just had this discussion at our conference planning meeting today

Jen

oh my goddess, how often do charity offices get cleaned… in my experience working at a charity…NEVER

Beate

Someone should look into that. With soap

Jen

what was the discussion Bea?

John

we started to hear rumours that some of our fav conferences are talking about plan B’s

Beate

So our conference is in september

how do we prepare for an eventual plan B if the outbreak is still going.

Jen

Simon and Nikki were so ahead of the curve with Fundraising Everywhere!

John

lol… who knew

Beate

Apparantly that’s how the Spanish flu rolled, there was a smaller outbreak in the spring, quieter over summer and the real wave in the fall. If that happens, it impacts the whole fall conference roster.

Jen

Maybe Simon is a criminal mastermind who has created this whole thing

Beate

He IS conspicuously missing this conversation..

John

LOL

Beate

But yeah. You do need to plan for a) how do we contain this if it’s still going but not to cancel everything-level, and b) what do you do if you do have to cancel

with a) I mean hygience, disinfection, how to make it safer for a large crowd to be in the same room.

hygience, that’s a new word

John

and like you said B

if they have set up their conference without sufficent insurance

you are a bit screwed

Beate

Yep. Don’t plan ANYTHING that would break the bank if it gets cancelled

John

an you imagine if youre a 1,000 conference and you had to refund everything and everyone?

Beate

and still pay all your vendors ’cause contracts.

Jen

My mum wrote a book about pandemics. Think imma dust that off for bedtime reading with my teenagers

A hand with blue nail polish holding a book. The cover is an alarming shade of red, with two drawn skulls on it. The book title is Pandemic survival - it's why you are alive. Authors Ann Love and Jane Drake, Illustrated by Bill Slavin.

Beate

oh wow!

That is SUCH a dramatic cover!

John

LOL

Jen

Right?

John

even as international speakers – such as ourselves i’m really starting to consider my plans for the next while

Jen

John do you remember the Congress during SARS? Or was it H1N1?

Beate

Wait were you both there for SARS?

So old

John

hmmm

Jen

Fuck you Bea

Beate

lol

John

i dont remember

Jen

I remember they gave us all hand sanitizer pens

John

ouf

RIGHT

Beate

SARS was 2003. H1n1 was 2010 or something.

Jen

and showed us all the different ways to greet without shaking hands

John

i think i thought mine was a mouth spray

Beate

Gif showing three pairs of feet filmed from above. The people touch shoe tips, mimicking a form of hand free greeting

John

lol. that will be about it.

the full body huggers WILL NOT LIKE this

Beate

I’ve been so cautious about what I touch these past few days!

Which you probably should be anyway to be fair

John

(name of your sex tape beate?)

Beate

😒

Jen

I’ve never been more aware of how much I touch my face

Beate

JEN WHAT WILL WE DO NEXT WEEK YOU’RE RIGHT OFF A PLANE!!

John

lol

Beate

SANTISE YOURSELF AND THEN WE’LL HUG

Jen

Deal

Beate

It’s so unfair that pollen season coincides with don’t touch your face season

John

ok – we need to wrap up soon

so

ill ask one more question

Beate

Do lobsters get corona virus

John

do you think that legacy giving programs could see an uptick – due to the unfortunate fact that maybe there will be an uptick in deaths? and is this good or bad for charities? discuss

Jen

oouf

Beate

Maybe and no don’t even ask that question my god

So inappropriate

😂

John

no?

Jen

Another consideration: will more people be writing (or updating) wills now?

John

right?

Jen

that would also be a good outcome…more people writing/updating wills

Beate

Either way – an uptick now would mean a downtick (is that a word?) in the coming years, so.

John

well

not necessarly

Beate

why not?

John

we’d just be speeding the inevitable up

Beate

That’s what I said

John

oh

LOL

Beate

you’re agreeing with me by saying you disagree with me?

John

that would be a very lobster thing – wouldnt it

Beate

true

In conclusion: wash your hands.

John

in all seriousness – i do hope all of our friends and colleagues – arouind the world – stay safe and healthy…

Jen

Agree. wash your hands!

John

and hopefully this thing starts to sort itself out…

Beate

According to Trump it’ll all be fine when the weather is warmer so 🤷🏻‍♀

Jen

Simon, maybe you can let us know how you plan to unleash this on the planet…

John

lobster fact!

in the spirit of todays coronaversation

i have a lobster fact

Jen

I LOVE a themed lobster fact!

#swoon

Beate

can I for the record say I object to the standard you’re both setting by relating lobster facts to themes

John

LOL

Jen

Objection noted. Moving on.

John

considering the fact that stores are being emptied

When food is scarce, lobsters can turn cannibal and dine on smaller lobsters.

Jen

You already used this fact!

Beate

hahahahahaha

John

did i????

SHIT

WTF?

Jen

I think you have the virus.

Beate

It is REALLY not that many lobster facts to check through, John!

John

ok ok

hold on

does anyone want to guess

the record

Jen

for how many more times can he fuck up the lobster fact?

Beate

hahahahah

John

for the largest lobster roll?

Beate

oh.. eating lobster rolls, so much better than eating the kids.

Jen

I think I just heard Mark Phillips’ ears perk up

John

LOL

guesses?

Beate

Side note: Cannibal lobster fact was in the Mark Phillips episode.

John

No googling

Beate

what are we talking about, weight, square kilometers, height in american forearms?

Jen

biggest lobster roll… literally no idea. like one of those giant submarine sandwiches they eat at american fairs?

John

180 FEET!

Beate

I do not know how much that is

Neither does 90% of the world

metric please

John

FFS Beate

Beate

FFS John

John

there is a place called Shediac, New Brunswich – here in CANADA

John

sigh

180 feet

Beate

Ah length

Is that seriously just a bunch of baguettes in a line?

Very unimpressive

Jen

that’s a serious motherfucker of a lobster rolll

John

it’s like

BIG

just look at the damn link

the made the roll themselves Beate – sheesh

Beate

I did

Not impressed

John

you are a tough crowd

John

bah. now I NEED TO GO WASH my hands after this chat

Beate

Weeeell, I mean. I think we could probably beat that record

John

stay safe gang.

Jen

XOXO lobsters

John

how norweigan of you to say that BEATE

see you next time!

Beate

Oh – but the thing was a fundraiser, did you see?

350 tickets at $20.

To watch bread cook for ten hours

I’m talking to myself now, aren’t I

John

sigh

RECORD BUTTON – OFF….

Feb. 25: Clearly, everyone should stop doing digital

*Beate Sørum added Claire Kerr to the chat*

Beate

Time zone check: everyone ready in fifteen?

Simon

Yes

John

No

Picture from inside the passenger seat of a car, showing a busy road

John

lol

Beate

you’re not on the driver’s side so you’re fine

John

I’ll do my best

Claire

Here!

John

Claire!!!!

Simon

CK!

Claire

😀

Beate

Did you remember your lobster fact this time, Simon?

If not you have two minutes

Simon

Oh fuck

Beate

one minute

though it doesn’t have to live up to Jen’s standards of being relevant to topic, I don’t know when that started being a rule

😄

Find me a digital lobster

Simon

OK sorted

Claire

The only lobster fact I have is that Pinchy deserved better

Simon

Pinchy

😭😭😭

Gif of Homer Simpson eating his pet lobster Pinchy, licking his fingers in joy while crying

Beate

Sooo Simon, wanna start us off before John has to jump through security?

Simon

Yep let’s go

We have a guest lobster

Claire

Hello!

Simon

Can’t remember who she is replacing

Hello Claire Kerr!

Beate

One of the canadians

John

🧐

Beate

they’re all the same

Simon

The interchangeable canadians

Claire

We blend together like maple syrup and snow

Beate

Initials JL I believe

Simon

Ha

So Claire is a good guest this week because she’s a digital legend

And it’s the week that Blackbaud’s stats came out

Beate

🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

Claire

You have to be careful with the number of Canadians you invite to a group before they derail the convo to that one time they backpacked through Europe

Simon

With a flag on their rucksack

Claire

Yes we love to point that out. Ok sit down Jacques Cousteau

Beate

hah

Well. The stats are out.

Claire

STATS!

Beate

Cue the annual cool-fest of dunking on digital

Simon

I have put their main digital stat in to graph format

Line graph of percentage of overall fundraising revenue raised online from 2012 to 2019. The line increases almost imperceptibly from somewhere around 6,5% to 8% out of the 100% over the near-decade.

Claire

I think this proves we should stop fundraising online immediately.

Simon

Well I’m not sure it’s a dunk-fest as such. Maybe. But it’s more kind of “look! Can we realign our priorities now!”

Claire with a curve ball

Beate

It’s a bit of a dunk-fest.

Simon

Yes a bit

John

Guys… sorry just moving through the airport…

Simon

Uh-oh…now I’m outnumbered by digital gurus

Claire

I’m suggesting all clients throw effort into asking for change at the cash register. Those plastic boxes aren’t going to fill themselves.

Beate

It’s a yes-and thing I think

Yes, of course you need to figure out your actual fundraising first and just shifting to digital isn’t going to fix those glaring issues of not recognising donors or talking a language they like/understand

Simon

It’s a yes-but so many other factors

Beate

AND no one is actually suggesting that

Simon

I think some people are

Beate

no serious people are saying it😄

Only “gurus”

Claire

I think we should also give a shoutout to Canadian orgs with the higher growth rate in online fundraising (more opportunity to grow?) at 9.23% vs 3.11%

🙂

Simon

Stick a flag on it

Beate

I believe the stat also lies quite a bit (lies damn lies and statistics)

Simon

I think there is an actual pressure to shift to digital and be everywhere

Beate

Because it tracks digital conversions, if I understand it correctly. But it doesn’t track how many first-time donors came through digital, who ended up donating on their next DM. Or signing up to a direct debit. Or getting to know you and responding when they in some other way ended up in your file.

Simon

Correct…that’s a flaw. But of course it works the other way too. People who see offline and then donate online.

Beate

Absolutely!

Beate

which is why I think the whole digital vs the rest debate is bonkers

Claire

Yes I think this is confusing to track for many organizations. I hear from folks all the time especially if they have multiple systems with data in them.

Simon

The stat that I always find interested is from the private sector…where apparently only abotu 12% of purchases are online

Which I think is incredible

Beate

is that across all industries?

Simon

Yeh…so obvs massively skewed in some industries

Beate

I would think so

Claire

Retailers also know the power of digital marketing to equal sales in person. You don’t have to explain that to Nike, etc.

Beate

exactlhy

Claire

There are many charities who have a well known brand “offline” – like a brand name essentially, and market on non-digital channels, so online all they have to do is direct marketing (Donate Now) vs. explain the value of their org. When I see other orgs compare themselves to their digital success I have to SMH

Simon

OK what about this…what percentage of a nonprofits spend should be on digital? (And you can only answer with a number and no other caveats or I will eject you from chat)

Beate

I wanna caveat and explain so bad

😬

*Simon Scriver removed Beate Sørum from the chat*

*Simon Scriver added Beate Sørum to the chat*

Beate

I DIDN’T!

Claire

LOL we removed you

Simon

ha

Claire

LOL I think the stat everyone remembers from marketing classes is 8% of revenue to marketing

Simon

Yeh we do forget that…that digital is so much more than donating

Claire

But underneath that you can segment digital

However – Not all of a charity’s mission is marketing

Organizations doing program delivery should be spending on digital too

There are are so many ways that digital channels can help an organization complete their goals whether or not fundraising is included in the mix.

Simon

Maybe it’s because we have the wrong impression that digital is social

Like it’s hard to even classify email as digital

Claire

And often they work together —- The Measuring People Power report by MobLabs that just came out actually explains how orgs can quantify the power of online movements, advocates, volunteers

Simon

Ooh I have to read that

Claire

Care2 also sponsored – they survey 500 (!) organizations and grassroots groups.

Beate

It is asking “how much is a car”. It’s going to be very different for different orgs, wether they have big databases or not, what kind of giving they are after, and how digtially mature their target audience is

And we have the idea that digital is “free”

It’s weird how no one minds paying €1200 for a street recruited regular donor, but balks at paying €800 for a digitally recruited one

Simon

Hmm…I think people balk at all donor recruitment spend…but you’re right

Beate

one zero too many in those numbers

😂

Simon

There is an unreasonable demand on what digital should return immediately

Beate

For the love of god balk if it costs you €800 to recruit a donor

Simon

Norwegian numbering – K$€5.000,00Ó per donor!

Beate

🙄

Simon

Depends on the ROI

Beate

dønor

Claire

I think what is happening here is that face to face and direct mail use trusty formulas that many development professionals recognize as reasonable long term investments. When it comes to digital, there’s a trust gap. I’m not saying the gap makes sense but you can feel it in the concern many professionals have about proving to the board that they should invests in online acquisition.

Beate

YES!

Simon

IS there a Norwegian agency called dønor?

Beate

“dø” means die, so no.

Simon

Which is weird because digital is easier to track over the longterm

But so many times it’s one facebook post or one email and the “It doesn’t work”

Beate

But many are not willing to even DO longterm

exactly

Claire

And as a sector, we are not great at sharing results with each other. So many orgs feel they aren’t confident that THEIR program will be the “successful one”

Simon

So is our problem that we treat online and offline too differently? There’s a big divide but in reality not so much

Beate

And all experience shows that you have to invest in longterm, always-on digital for it to yield the real results. And invest in testing and learning

Simon

Like what we say in the Donor Love Academy…your donor isn’t online or offline. They’re a human being who sometimes goes online

Beate

“sometimes”

not sharing *my* screen stats…

😬

Claire

Thankfully in Canada I’ve seen some great multi-channel case studies that show how digital can work with other channels. Because monthly giving is such a buzz right now, this is a great time to talk about these issues because successful recurring giving programs integrate lots of different things.

Simon

That’s important

Phone boosts email, email boosts events, everything boosts everything

Beate

I wish we could say fundraising digital instead of digital fundraising

Simon

“Fundraising Digital”…interesting

“Screen fundraising”

Claire

I think that many professionals see digital as unknowable or unreliable and it creates a fear factor that stops them from learning more.

Simon

Maybe there’s too much info out there

Let’s stop reading these reports

Beate

One org I know well here, recruits 5-10.000 regular donors a year on facebook alone

those are volumes previously only thought to be possible face to face (remember only five million norwegians all together)

Simon

What’s 10.000 ?

In English

Beate

10,000

ffs

🙄

Simon

lol

That’s a lot

Beate

that IS a lot

times €20 a month times 5-10 years

Simon

That’s like Eøøøøøø! krone!

Claire

I love all the reports in aggregate! You also have to look at who is included, who is excluded, and what kind of vertical the orgs are in.

Simon

Yeh good call…the Blackbaud report is only their customers

Beate

And is it US/Canada only?

or all markets?

Simon

It’s mainly US but they have little sections on UK, Canada and NZ/Oz

Which aren’t too different

Beate

So basically the least digital markets out there

they still use checks ffs

Simon

Yeh I mean it would be interseting to see Norway

So far ahead in terms of money

Ireland is so chequey and cashy

Beate

Depends on how you count, but we’re approaching 100% of our transactions already being digital

When you receive a DM, you’ll open your banking app and pay from your account

We wouldn’t classify that as a digital transaction though – channel is still offline

Simon

But it would be recorded as digital prob?

In a databse I mean

Beate

No

Simon

You know I’ve never seen Norwegian cash?

Beate

can’t remember the last time I was in possession of cash

like for real

Simon

lol

A few Norwegian 200 krone bills. They have a drawing of a cod on them.

Simon

Give a man a fish

Claire

I think the most money-digital forward place I’ve ever been was Kenya

I wish we could do all payments so easily as through phones. But Canada is not there though

Simon

Yeh when whatsapp roll out money transfers it will be a gamechanger

Beate

We already have that

not whatsapp, but similar

I open it, type in someone’s phone number and whoosh money out

instantly transferred

however – those apps don’t share ANY data

Which poses it’s own set of problems of course.

Simon

I liked Revolut until I got banned for money laundering

Oh our time is up! Give me a conclusion each please

What should we learn from these stats?

Claire

I also find that some professionals worry too much about the payment side – which is the end of the transaction. They have weird or elaborate donor journeys set up to accommodate an existing payment gateway or CRM configuration instead of accommodating the donor

Beate

yeah

“my database has this shitty form so i must use it”

no

invest in better

Claire

These stats shouldn’t discourage you from building out your growth plan or 2020. The scarcity mentality hits us when your online channels have a smaller ROI & nobody at the org is clamouring to invest more if you can concentrate on major gifts (for example). But with forward thinking you can plan to have that solid annual giving foundation. Also – digital marketing supports relationship building like major gifts / legacy!

Beate

Yep! Invest in infrastructure, and invest in your advertising program

Simon

That’s a good conclusion

OK…lobster fact

Beate

If you sent out DM’s with no way to pay, you also would receive no money

Which is the equivalent of what happens online so many times

Simon

Claire are you excited? Your first live lobster fact

John

Ok. I made it

Beate

hahaha!

Simon

Fucks sake John

We’re wrapping up

John

What???

Claire

LOL yes!! I’m ready

Simon

It’s a myth that lobsters scream when you put them in hot water – they have no lungs and no vocal cords. The lobster’s only voice is kind of a crackly noise some people compare to violins

Beate

wtf

Simon

Unfortunaytely not like Jen

Claire

how do they make the crackly noise then!

Simon

They actually have a little violin

Claire

that makes sense

Beate

and.. how do you compare a crackly noise to a violin

🧐

John

It’s their soul leaving their bodies

Beate

☹️

Claire

they heard my grade 3 lessons obvs

A drawing of a lobster playing a violin but holding it like a big bass (the instrument, not the fish)

Simon

OK that’s it…lovely to chat. And thanks again Claire x

Beate

Thanks for joining Claire!

John

Sigh

Thanks Claire!

Simon

Thanks for joining John

🙄

Claire

Thank yoU!!!

*Beate Sørum removed Claire Kerr*

Feb. 18: The soul crushing starts at 12 months

*Jen Love added Kimberley MacKenzie to the chat*

Jen

Good Morning/Afternoon!

John

giddyup

Jen

Hope everyone is well today.

Simon

M’aftern’ing

Jen

I’m delighted to welcome our guest lobster, the one and only Kimberley MacKenzie!

Kimberley

Hey!

Simon

Hello KmacK

John

hello KM! welcome.

Kimberley

Thanks Jen…nice to be here.

Interesting platform….

Jen

The lovely Beate will do an edit on our worst typos…wish she was here today but she is with her family and we send lobster love to them all!

So I asked my friend and colleague KM to join us today because I want to talk about something that is really a big part of her thinking and work…

And that’s around managing change within organizations.

John

didnt you use a fancier name for it earlier?

Jen

I think I called it change management

and then you (John) rolled your eyes at me

Kimberley

Jargonny….

John

i get “managing change…”

Jen

So maybe managing change makes it more approachable

So I wanted to start if we could all have a brief reflection on what “managing change” means…

Kimberley

I like “influencing change”

Jen

OOOH KM out of the gate with better lingo

Talk to us about that

John

did we get KM to take the keystoke test btw?

Kimberley

Well if we see ourselves (Fundraisers) as being an influencer it sets our ego aside and puts us in a position of service to the organization.

But Influence is better.

We don’t “manage” anyone.

Simon

Don’t we all influence everything?

Kimberley

Yes. I think we do. Positive or negative.

So what kind of influence do we want to have?

John

don’t we all know people at orgs who want to NOT influence anything or anyone? keep their head down? stay away from change? conflict?

Kimberley

I think it is a mindset that needs to shift if real change can happen.

Simon

But everyone thinks they have a positive influence

Kimberley

And yet results would say otherwise.

Simon

Nobody sets out to negative

Jen

You’re right that no one wants to be a negative influence, but putting your head down and avoiding change or conflict definitely is a challenge

Kimberley

I think a lot of fundraisers are frustrated and stuck that their organizations, staff, management, boards aren’t just doing what they say.

Fundraisers are often seen as a magic bullet to every problem in the organization.

Jen

and it’s easier and safer to say “well, I’ll just do my job and I’ll do 2% better than last year”

Kimberley

That feels pretty good at the beginning.

Jen

Lots to unpack already!

Because part of the problem with the whole influencing change is getting a new fundraising leader and putting all your hopes on them!

Kimberley

Exactly.

Jen

So the pressure cooker starts even before your day 1 at a job… right?

Kimberley

And when real change takes about 24 months and the average turnover rate for senior fundraisers is 18 months no actually change happens

Jen

Ok this is the good shit

KM unpack that for me… that timetable of 24 months to change and 18 months on staff…

Kimberley

Here is the cycle: First six months: New fundraiser – everyone hopeful – honeymoon.

Next six months – rolling up the sleeves and building a fundraising plan. – optimism.

Jen

(and a good fundraiser will spend their first 6 months listening and building trust)

Kimberley

Yeah that’s the fun part.

Everyone loves their job then.

John

when does the soul crushing start?

Kimberley

12 months.

sometimes nine

Simon

God in the first 6 months you’re still getting to grips with where to have lunch

John

this feels like a story i hear over and over

Jen

And in some orgs you haven’t even met your board members or major donors in the first 6 months

Simon

Some fundraisers never get to meet board members

Kimberley

When it comes time to implement the plan and everyone realizes they they need to shift/change their status quo to raise more money.

Last 6 months….”I need to get the fuck out of here or my career is toast”….”let me throw all my talent and energy into my volunteer work so my colleagues will know how awesome I am and I can get a new job.”

Jen

Ooooofff

Kimberley

It is systemic and tragic and happens over and over and over again.

We puff each other up at conferences so we can go back to dysfunctional organizations.

John

😭

Kimberley

I don’t think it has to be that way.

In fact I know it doesn’t. We need to go upstream. We need to influence change.

Simon

Are fundraisers not getting the right support at conferences?

Like they’re just told this and this and this needs to change

Then back to reality it’s not so easy

Kimberley

We need to see ourselves at the centre of ….

Jen

I think there is a lot of truth in that about conferences and then going back and realizing that influencing change/implementing new ideas is the really hard work

Kimberley

Well…my frustration is certainly that we go, feel better and then it falls flat when we get back to our offices….I think there’s a podcast about that somewhere. 😘

Jen

getting fired up and inspired is the easier part…doing the work in our own charities is much harder

Simon

“From change maker to change manager”

Conference tagline

“From fired up to fired”

Jen

Good one! I’d attend that!

HAHA the first one

John

😂

Jen

I’d like to ask you about your experience being influencer of change… perhaps with a specific project…

Kimberley

What? like when a consultant brings you a wacky idea….and it’s your job to implement?

John

haha

Jen

Yes, like that. Or anything in that vein.

Kimberley

Let’s talk about John.

John

your honour: i find these questions leading…

Jen

(bangs gavel) overruled!

Kimberley

I will never forget the time I was a director of fundraising and John was my primary agent at that time…..

Yes…we have worked for pretty much my entire career I think.

John

truth! what a beautiful adventure!

Kimberley

Anyway – on this particular appeal – John suggested we NOT use org branding for the package and that the letter not come from the ED.

Simon

Did John deliver with his usual sass?

Kimberley

Yup full of attitude.

In fact. On this occasion John suggested the letter come from a bird.

I’ll never forget the my response on the phone….

john do you remember?

John

no…

silence?

Simon

Haha

Kimberley

“What the FUCK! How the hell am I supposed to get the director of communications to agree not only to no branding but to a return postage of bird prints!!!” You are fucking crazy.

I had this wave of….cool idea. I have no idea how to get people onside with it.

John

😬

Jen

Yep, that’s how i recall it. Verified!

So what did you do? what were your steps?

This is part of the untold story of Ruby the Hummingbird… And I love it!

John

Here’s the “told story”, on SOFII:

Jen

Thanks John! So helpful!

John

I’m here to serve.

Kimberley

That appeal wasn’t just a cool appeal. (that is the story that gets mostly told) That appeal was a shift in the organizational culture. And it required me taking a step back and thinking about thow to influence the change.

Who to get onside?

How to convince folks it was a good idea.

Simon

Without knowing if it was a good idea?

Kimberley

By that point trust had already been built. Trust from me that my consultant was smart and I wanted to try it.

I trusted John.

John

such a key component to working with any supplier/partner!

Simon

Do you still trust John?

John

lol

Kimberley

Well…I’ve worked primarily with Jen since then.

😂

Jen

^^delightful burn

Kimberley

Man this chat goes fast…

Here’s the thing.

When we approach our job as being influencers of change and building trust. We can get alignment around all sorts of wacky new innovative ideas.

And there is a systematic approach to doing that that I think more development folks could benefit from. And as a result they would be more satisfied and more successful in their jobs.

It starts with being humble.

And asking folks – what do you need? How can I help? If you had all the resources you need what would you do?

Jen

Goddess yes, humility and curiosity are the soft skills that fundraisers (and human beings) need to be intentional about…

Kimberley

If we set our ego aside and lift up others. Like program staff, executive director, board members, we create alliances around a positive vision for change. Then we spread that vision, empower action across the organization

get some quick wins and build on that.

That’s what happened with the Ruby appeal.

That is why that organization now has mind blowing growth and they have a solid fundraising program

Cool innovative idea + humility in house + positive results = win for everyone and the world changes…..or at least a small piece of it.

John

They obviously trusted you as well KM. you knew your stuff, I think you always do a good job at managing expectations… that’s why they are where they are now

Kimberley

Thanks john.

Imagine if we all could do that.

Simon

Imagine

Jen

Imagine!

OK lobsters

lots more to unpack…might need a do-over on this topic down the road!

John

roger.

Kimberley

I’m here anytime.

Jen

First, big thanks to our guest lobster, Kimberley… we appreciate you!

Kimberley

thanks for the invite. It’s fun hanging with you folks!

John

❤ Thanks KM

Jen

Lets we wind down with a lobster fact

And today it makes SO much sense for our lobster fact to be about…

MOLTING!

John

mmm

molting

Jen

Lobsters have a built-in process for change.

Simon

Wow

Great research

John

lol

Jen

Lobsters grow by molting. This is the process in which they struggle out of their old shells while absorbing water, which expands their body size. This molting, or shell-shedding, occurs about 25 times in the first 5–7 years of life.

John

just like Jen.

Simon

Are they happy about it tho?

Jen

So here’s where it gets even more interesting

Kimberley

okay – nice lobster fact Jen. Perfect!

There’s more?

John

ooo

Jen

KM, my fierce feminist friend, there is more

Female lobsters can only mate just after she has molted. Reproduction (and enjoyment of lobster sex) is ONLY possible because of change!

Simon

Like roleplay?

John

LOL

Jen

So those of you who watch the chatcast know that we often boot out the guest in a shocking way

but today…

*Jen Love removed Simon Scriver from the chat*

Jen

Simon gets removed for a dumb role playing joke

Feb.11: Where everybody is trying to get organised and one person gets their messy desktop outed

Simon

Hallo

Beate

hallo!

John

HAI

Jen

Haiiiiiiiieeee!

Simon

lol

How’s everyone?

Beate

I’m feeling good!

Just did a podcast-podcast earlier today, that was fun

Jen

Cold. It’s February and freezing up in here.

Beate

It’s february and NOT freezing up in here, which is alarming..

John

im in a deep pit of dispair but apart from that – peachy keen

Jen

Simon

Snowing here. And I’m all over the place

What’s a podcast-podcast?

Jen

So old school, Bea. Now who’s the old lady?

Beate

hah

Still you

😂

Beate

Isn’t that what Anne of Green Gables says, she’s in the depths of despair?

Very canadian

Jen

Speaking of old ladies, John is quoting Anne with an E

John

just in time for valentines day

Simon

So…

I have officially abandoned my bullet journal

No more BJs more me

John

what?

Simon

So was going to ask you guys this week about your organisational skills

John

ooohhh

Beate

THat didn’t last long!

Jen

that’s a short list but I’m ready

Simon

Since you cover the full spectrum of massively organised 🇳🇴 to massively gong showy 🇨🇦

John

nothing say click bait like talking about organizational skills

Simon

It’s all about the pull-out quote John

John

😮

Beate

So why did you abandon it, Simon?

Simon

Meh…I think it was the paper that got me

Well, the carrying it around

Beate

haha

Simon

I like it on my phone and computer

Beate

and did you use it as intented?

Simon

I mean yeh I did, but then did you know you’re also supposed to carry a pencil case?

With lots of pens and stencils and shit

Aint nobody got time for that

Beate

yeah if you’re a diehard

Simon

Trello is kind of working for me

Jen

We used Trello and really dug it… but just when it was perfect for us they were going to start to charge us

Beate

I like trello

Simon

Also if anyone mentions Slack I’m booting them out

Beate

I use a combination of trello, slack, google docs, email, calendar and paper

don’t boot me!

Simon

Trello is nice and simple. And I’m using dates on it now too and thats cool. And it’s free

Jen

it is free for a while.

We now use Freedcamp, on the recommendation of Cindy Wagman at Good Partnership

💯

Simon

Do you pull in clients and stuff to that?

Or is that just you and John sending each other messages

John

i use a notepad and a pen. you should see my desk

#gongshow

Simon

Why do you use pen and paper? You’re a digital guy

John

i dunno… cos i can literally cross somethng off my list when im done

sense of satsifaction

Simon

That is very satisfying

John

right?

Simon

And I love rewriting out a to do list

Starting fresh

Jen

Less satisfying for me. (the story of Jen)

Because when John needs to find something he digs around like a badger

John

vs – what? moving a tile? clicking a box? select and delete?

Simon

I feel like all these tools are moot. It’s more of a mindset?

Jen

TOTALLY a mindset

Simon

Does anyone actually have that mindset?

I feel like organised people are actually just deviants

Serial killers

John

lol

Jen

with the tools that work for you and your particular persnickety proclivities

Simon

wtf

Beate

For me:

Slack is for informal conversation and discussion. Showing off early designs, getting feedback, agreeing on what we should make.

Trello is for when we have the finished stuff, when we describe what needs to be made and hand it off for someone to make.

Email is for someone external to the project that we need, but not enough to include them in slack or trello.

Paper is for thinking out loud and making a today-list when I am overworked and need to make a list in order to get anything done.

Jen

I’d like to call out Bea’s use of Slack/Trello as a way to not get booted for mentioning Slack

Bea just broke my brain

John

she’s very on brand though – isnt she?

Beate

it works guys!

Simon

She’ll bury us all

Works for you

What’s your morning routine Beate?

Like how do you approach the day?

Beate

I’m really not very organised.

My day is work through my mailbox.

So whenever other people are involved, we need some kind of system – and that’s where slack and trello come in

Simon

Email or post?

Beate

POST??

John

do they have mailboxes in norway????

Beate

what kind of freak gets enough post that they work through it??

Jen

Queen Tammy Zonker said something recently that stuck with me. “Your email is a helpful container for other people’s priorities.”

John

word.

Beate

Yes! That’s why I try to use paper, and slack/trello for where other people are included

Simon

Tammy…that’s why she’ll always be the first lady of fundraising

Simon

Wagman was talking about setting aside time for emails. Like an hour a day or something. She even has that in her constant OOO

That’s out of office

Jen

Tammy is our Beyonce

Simon

Not, “oooo….organised”

Email is a bit of an annoying to do list

I LOVE the snooze on my email

Snooze that until tomorrow

Beate

Saaaaame!!

Snooze that shit

John

i need to do that

Simon

Snooze it until I’m dead

Beate

it’s the only thing that keeps me in any kind of control of my inbox

Jen

I’m a flagger. Don’t snooze but I flag the fuck out of things

Beate

On the WORST-list though:

fucking outlook!!

Jen

Outlook BAH

Beate

Outlook needs to die

Jen

Gmail/Mac Mail

Simon

Wow I forgot outlook existed. Havent used it in years

Beate

anyone who uses outlook as their email client is in a world of self inflicted pain for no reason at all

John

throw down… whoa

Simon

Nobody used outlook by choice

Beate

outlook is only used by people who have to because of their boss, or they don’t know better, or don’t want to change their habits

Simon

So Beate…you get up, you have a shower, you correct lots of people and then…what? You just work through trello and slack and email?

How do you motivate yourself to start?

Beate

oh god

By thinking about how much trouble I’ll be in if I don’t

Jen

“You correct lots of people” AMAZING

John

i need some help getting organized. my inbox, calendar, paper and brain are dumpster fire of stuff…

Simon

Haha

Fear is a good motivator

John

i cant keep on top of it all.

and im drowning in lists.

Simon

It’s hard. And then there’s you yahoos whatsapping me

Beate

hahah

at different timezones of appropriateness

Simon

I think my problem is multitasking

Like jumping around from thing to thing

Jen

Social media is a productivity plunge

And as Wagman pointed out you lose so much time in the change

John

im dead in the water the second i try to multitask.

Simon

I need to start single tasking

Beate

This is why I make paper lists when shit’s on fire. I can then keep that list in front of my eyes and go task-to-task

Simon

We’re men. We can’t multitask

Jen

#BITCHPLEASE

Simon

Jen it’s true

God didn’t give us that gift

John

he’s not too wrong you know

Jen

Don’t even with the gendered part of that

Beate

No one can multitask

Jen

I think my eyerolls might have caused a tsunami

Simon

Yeh maybe it’s a human thing

Jen

It’s a human thing

Simon

I’m going to start really boxing off one task at a time

One tab in chrome

Jen

OH

John

yahhh rrriiiggghhhttttt

Simon

Is that ridiculous?

Jen

I have a blog post started about that

Beate

I never have one tab

usually 3-7

more than that and I get a bit unnerved

Jen

Our gal Rory Green and I have talked about the whole idea of “close some tabs, will ya?”

For work AND life

Simon

Ha – “I have a blog post started about that”

Beate

The irony

😂

Jen

FAIR

Simon

Yeh I have minimum 5 tabs at all times

Jen

Those moments when you catch a glimpse of someone else’s browser or desktop

Simon

Organised chaos

Tara’s desktop

😂😂😂

Jen

I actually captured a photo of a very well known fundraiser and presenter whose desktop showed up at a conference

talking about a dumpster fire

Simon

I think I know who

Let’s call him Bernard X

Nooooo

Let’s call him Mr Ross

John

lol

🔥

Jen

HAHAHAHHA

Not even cheating the edit there, eh Simon?

Beate

What I really winds me up is those people who go: “Just clean your inbox, do them one at a time, tick stuff of your list, and you’ll feel sooooo much better”. It just makes me angry – I turn in to a 14 year old screaming “YEEES MUM I WILL CLEAN MY ROOM STOOOOP NAGGING I KNOOOOOOW!”

The serial killer people

the Inbox-zero-evangelists

Jen

Axe murderers. Same with people who tweet it.

“Zero inbox and off I go on vacay”

Beate

“Inbox zero🙂”

With the psychopath emoji

John

GFY. seriously.

Simon

Snooze is good for inbox zero

Beate

Yes

And folders

and archive/delete with easy access

Simon

This is the year I get organised

Beate

You just quit your bullet journal

😂

Simon

This is the year I get organised in a different way

Beate

hahah

Simon

Trello is working for me

And google calendar

Jen

This is a no shame chat…oh wait…sorry…wrong group

Simon

But you know the problem?

Other people

Beate

True

Simon

When you get your shit together and then suddenly childminder has to do something or someone phones you or whatever

Beate

or EMAILS YOU

throws their dirty socks on the floor

😒

Jen

WAIT I’m sure there is a way to say that in Norwegian

Beate

You just shout “ROTKAILL” after the dude who threw their socks on the floor😂

John

🧐

John

John, don’t even attempt it

Jen

Fucking right, I knew it@!

John

im sitting here trying

Simon

You know what I did which I love

Beate

I’m inserting Johns trying to say Donorlove in Norwegian here

Simon

I change my voicemail so it says dont leave me a voicemail

Jen

Let’s hear it!

John

WROTE-KAAAAIIIIII-LLLLL

Beate

Get wrid of the w and you’ve got it!

Jen

“Hey, It’s Simon, You missed me, so call me back and don’t leave a fucking message”

Simon

Yeh I basically just say please dont leave me a voicemail cos voicemails are terrible. Text me. Or dont

Jen

So next time I call you don’t pick up

Simon

Like really nothing is important enough. Even if someone’s dead, just let me chill out for a bit. I’ll find out eventually

Beate

Hey speaking of organised. Have you read that shit about how differently our brains are organised? How some people have a voice in their head narrating when they think/read, and others just …don’t..?

Simon

Beate

Which one are you?

Beate

I totally have a voice

Jen

Beate

My voice has a megaphone

John

I can attest to that

Beate

Like some people can’t speak to themselves in the mirror without speaking out loud and I DON’T UNDERSTAND!

Simon

I have someone else’s voice

Beate

Like what is your brain if it doesn’t have a voice, just a mush of images and vague concepts floating around?

Simon

Every time I go in to my psychiatrist they have to ask me if I’ve been hearing voices

Thankfully never have

Beate

Well that’s good

Simon

But I would rather that then use Slack

Beate

HAHAH!

You’re just one of those outlook people

Jen

Slack IS the “other” voice in your head

Beate

“oh I’ve always used it, it’s FINE”

Simon

Slack is like having everyone else’s voice in your head

Beate

But out of your emails, which is the better point

Jen

So Bea your voice is like an 8 track?

Beate

I’m a millennial, I don’t know what that is

Jen

oh shit just realized the old lady jen there

DAMN

Beate

Ok – lobster fact time?

Simon

Oh fuck I forgot it’s my lobster fact turn

John

lol

Beate

Just do a John and reuse one

but with different words

John

hey

😡

Simon

Anyone have one stored in Slack or Trello or a piece of fucking paper?

Have we done the one about lobsters smelling with their feet?

Beate

I don’t think so!

Simon

OK

Hey guys, guess what lobsters smell with?

Beate

Their noses?

John

their FEET!

Simon

Lobsters can be left-‘handed’, right-‘handed’ or ambidextrous, and have several receptors on their claws and their legs, which they use to locate and recognise any food that is around them.

Beate

Is it actually smell?

Simon

Wait, I feel like that contradicts the title of the fact

Beate

Or some other kind of function?

Simon

I’m not using this lobster fact site again

Beate

Left-feeted

John

im not sure how this fact relates to this conversation though

Beate

ambifeettrous

John

like jen?

Jen

this is a very rare gongshow and shitshow colliding!

Simon

Oh ok I have a relevant one and then we’ll finish

Beate

two lobster facts, bonus!

Simon

Lobsters are biologically immortal

Jen

LIKE JEN

Simon

They keep growing until they die

Beate

…what..?

Simon

So their approach to time is different from us

John

is the “like jen” thing solely Simon’s territory?

Beate

yeah, kinda

Simon

Lobsters don’t use Slack

John

HA

Jen

We should start a Slack thread

Beate

So – if no one steps on them or fishes them, they live forever??

or do they die from size?

🤯

Simon

No

John

norweigan over-fishing?

Simon

They stop growing when they die. If they didnt die they’d grow to an infinite size

They live until like 50

But one day

The way lobster healthcare is progressing

Beate

The immortal thing threw me

John

IMAGINE!

Simon

They’ll be huge

John

giant lobsters!

Simon

Yeh the immortal thing is misleading. Blame science naming people

Beate

another faulty name lobster fact

Simon

OK I have to go

Watch out for giant lobsters everyone

I’m late

John

adios

Beate

buh-bye 😘

Jen

Way to plan your time Simon

Simon

Jen

Byyyyeeeeeeeeeee

Feb. 4: Simon is ON FIRE, John refuses metrics. KPI’s are good and bad.

Beate

5.30 peeps!

John

*comes in and sits down…

Beate

welcome, welcome

We are two bozos short

John

lol

Simon

Hello

Beate

⏱👈🏼

John

#BALLBUSTERBEA

Beate

Jeeeeeen…?

Jennifer!

John

JLO?!?!

Jen

I’m here I’m here

oh good morning all!

Beate

ok! So. Our surprise guest host is stuck in a snowstorm, so it’s just the familiar lobsters today.

John

BOOO

Beate

I still want to talk about the stuff that we’re measuring. Metrics and KPI’s.

Any immediate hot takes?

Let’s get the rants out of the way first

John

ooooo sexy time

Jen

Measure what matters.

John

which is – your loving donors

not how much money they have you greedy batards

Beate

Love is not a metric, John.

John

it is in my world Beate.

ARE WE NOT HUMAN???!??!?!?!

Beate

I don’t know if that is sad or sweet

Simon

Measuring is weird because:

– It’s a pain in the arse.

– Usually we don’t have the time or knowledge.

– Most nonprofits don’t have the volume for measurement to mean anything.

– Benchmarking of others isnt necessarily relevant to your own situation.

– At the end of the day so many people believe their feeling over data.

Fin.

Mic drop

Oh shit that wasnt my mic it was my drink

Beate

Well. conversation over.

You just said it all.

John

good.

well done Simon.

Simon

Haha

Huge levels of sarcasm incoming, thank you

But really I have a lot of feelings on measurement

Beate

Wasn’t sarcasm, surprisingly!

Jen

All true Simon!

Beate

I’m of two minds. I measure everything, I spend far too much time on it. But:

When someone asks me “what can I expect from that”, and they have NEVER done anything like it, there are a thousand variables, and no prior knowledge, then how the fuck can we answer that question??

Jen

And the other part of the conversation is measuring over time. We are slaves to 12 month budgets

Simon

I remember when I started working in a small nonprofit and we had 2 monthly donors, and some marketing expert told me to split test

John

lol

#slowclap

Jen

Wait, wasn’t that John?

John

😐

Simon

Yes the 12 month trap again. But hard to say what the right span of time is

John

not everything in our world is a straight line

Simon

Nothing in our world is a straight line

John

humans dont move in straight lines

which is why a lot of what you’re trying to measure

cant be measured

Beate

i think metrics are a crutch sometimes

You don’t want to make a decision without knowing what it will lead to

but it’s the future – there’s no possible way to know for sure!

John

because it’s math. cant argue with that right?

Jen

You don’t want to be judged for what happens if you did’t get your metrics, or get them right

Simon

I remember someone tweeting a while ago the uncomfortable reality that there is no data to back up the entire advertising industry

Beate

hahah yes

I worked in sales for the yellow pages ages ago, and we used the old adage that “only 50% of marketing work, you just don’t know which half” (of course arguing our half did and we could measure it)

Simon

“What we can learn from the booming yellow pages industry”

John

I’ve got a post brewing how we are a sector tied up looking for definitives… which is why we have seen so little growth over the years…

there are very few definitives in this work…

Beate

Everybody out-ranted?

John

life has no guarentees

Beate

haha

so measuring dumb things is dumb

John

lol

Beate

What should we measure? what’s good use of kpi’s and metrics?

does anyone have a favourite kpi

😂

John

sigh.

Simon

I think a good rule is measure everything but not at the cost of doing

John

100% this.

Beate

wow mister hard truths and thought bombs today!

Simon

My brain is working well today, it’s true

Like you could spend your full week watching live google analytics

Beate

And so many do!

Simon

Oh its so much fun! I love watching the live stats

“Who is this Irish prick that has just been sitting on my homepage the whole time I’ve been watching the analytics?”

Beate

Usually yourself

honestly, when my former employer was doing tv ads for the month leading up to christmas, analytics live was my second screen for the entire month

had it on all the time

Jen

That makes my brain freeze

John

mine too partner

Jen

Imagine old lady Jen trying to decipher that shit with my glasses on the end of my nose and my tea or sherry spilling on the keyboard

Simon

👵🏼 “Google Ana…what?”

Beate

You don’t like watching numbers roll in?

it’s like counting money!

so much fun

John

ugh

Beate

but entirely unproductive

like it doesn’t change the amount of money in the pile

Jen

Other things I don’t watch “roll in”: election results

Beate

obsessively

I think it gives me a feeling of control

Working with people who make me wait a month for the numbers makes me itchy

Simon

I do like all that data and stats and election stuff and as it happens analytics

But the truth is…and I say this in a lot of chatcasts…nobody knows what they’re doing

Jen

Like Jen

Simon

Years ago tried to hook up google analytics and donation reports to a giant live screen that would blast over us like a boiler room

Beate

I actually did that and it was wonderful!

It made other people engage with the fundraising

So, what are GOOD metrics to keep an eye on?

John

for our clients – you got measure the bottom line of ALL the channels….

good individual fundraisng programs will see lifts everywhere…

Jen

This! Ideally for any given campaign you have print, online and in person/phone calls happening to raise money for X. Measure the totals, not the email vs appeal vs phone call and then decide what to keep and cut.

Simon

There’s a happy medium right? We need these stats fast, and we have to let them influence our decisions

Simon

But they’re not gospel

And taking action is more effective than analysing forever

John

just because I let you buy me a drink on our first date Simon doesnt mean I’ll marry you…

Simon

I do a great first date

Beate

And i think we need to have the confidence to only measure against ourselves and not always worrying how we stack up against everyone else

John

agree Beate.

Jen

THIS must not get lost in the dating analogies

Simon

Yes absolutely! Interesting and useful to look at others…but it’s not the final answer

Jen

we had some hilarious chats this year with clients about how they can’t compare to sick children or puppies…and what they were trying to raise money for was space exploration!

Everyone thinks their charity is the hardest to fundraise for, and that they still try to measure against their stiffest competition

Beate

hahaha

yep

I think the more uncertainty there is, the more people long for a metric that will tell them they’re doing the right thing.

Simon

The cause is always greener on the other side

John

exactly right.

Beate

“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted” <- donorlove

John

i’m happy to let the counters count… but i like to focus on doing MY part… i’ll let donors do THEIR part… whatever that might be

Beate

So do you use metrics much at all with clients in the day-to-day, or mostly long term?

Simon

More longterm…but keep an eye on the day to day to make the slight tweaks

But most of my clients are smaller so measurement is cautious

Jen

We review project to project and also review long games. Especially in legacy metrics, which we touched on over on twitter with Clare Levy

My Dad has an almost unintelligible legacy tracking spreadsheet but once you lean into it, it’s very valuable

Beate

What does he track?

Jen

Mostly engagement — other ways legacy donors are connected to your program. Which breaks brains sometimes but when you can actually measure it, very valuable

John

bit of both. of course with online and offline – you get data… which is infomrative.. but really – just cos the appeal about frogs didnt do well… what do you change? never talk about frogs again?

i ❤ frogs btw

but they do shit in testing

Jen

I call BULLSHIT

when have we ever tested frogs against something else?

Beate

Maybe you just made very bad frog appeals?

John

lol

Jen

Maybe John did bad frog appeals elsewhere?

All my frog appeals have fucking slayed

John

but DID YOU TEST IT?

Jen

Back to Simon’s 2 monthly donor split test….see? It IS John!

Simon

What’s mad is when we take test results as fact forever. I know people are still quoting one piece of thank you research from decades ago

John

same. that’s a REALLY dumb idea BTW…

Beate

yeah. or looking for “what works on facebook”, like, it changes on an hourly basis!

John

so friends – dont do that

Beate

Ok. So, let’s wrap up with a lobsterfact

and, I would like you to rate it out of ten

John

mmm

Beate

To provide a metric

John

i love lobster

i could take down 3 lobster rolls right now

Beate

here’s the fact, from our surprise host who is not here:

Lobsters have teeth in their stomach.

Simon

9

John

i’ve heard this

Beate

that is not a score, john

once again, you’ve missed the brief

Simon

Qualitative

John

what am i scoring FFS?

that i like it?

Jen

oh man, john…

Beate

“out. of. ten. ”

John

fucking 100

Jen

That’s a solid 9.5 fact

Beate

Interesting. Not what I had benchmarked as a kpi in advance

I was way off market

John

this is dumb. I’m leaving.

Jan. 30: John has lost track of lobsterfacts already and donorlove is good and people are annoying and Norwegians hate Valentines day.

Beate

yo

Simon

Yo

Jen

Yo yo

Beate

where’s our lead yoyo

John

jesus you guys..

give me a sec here

Beate

it’s 17.31, john!

or x.31 i should say

farking time zones

John

ok ok

is this fucking thing on?

Beate

it’s your job to turn it on, John.

John

fuck

types “RECORD”

Beate

haha

John

good morning lobster friends.

Beate

good evening!

John

sorry I’m late. had a little trouble getting out of the tank this morning.

Jen

helloooo!

Jen

Hello

John

So apparently I’m hosting today’s gab… and recognizing that we are ONLY 2 WEEKS away from the all important valentines day -i thought we could talk about my favourite subject: DONORLOVE

❤️

Beate

valentines day

🤮

(sorry)

John

do you celebrate that in norway Beate?

Jen

Already a 🎢

John

or are the norweigans too short on time to celebrate it

Beate

well.. there’s a love/hate relationship going on with american holidays that the commercial sector tries to bring in in order to make money…

same with halloween

Simon

Wow that snuck up

Beate

and black friday

and cyber monday

and singles day???

etc.

John

so the norweigans really dislike everything

wow

ok – diving in

Beate

Not true. We like julebukk and jul and easter bunnies and shit

BUT – I am totally on board with donorlove 😂

Simon

I’m laughing at the concept of Norwegian romance

Beate

Massive digression; This is SUCH AN ACCURATE portrayal of Norwegian relationships😂

Jen

Off to a roaring start here

John

Back to topic. For context:

when we talk about the idea of donorlove – we are talking about A LOT more than just stewardship or gratitude

we define it like this:

You make your donor the hero.

You share amazing and inspiring stories.

You connect to your donors emotions and values.

You work diligently to allow your donors to fall – and stay – in love with you.

You ask for only one thing.

You always consider who (or what) is the right voice for your story.

You say thanks with passion.

#donorlove is all of the small things, all the time, over time.

there is some room for interpretation in there

but

you get the idea

we could spend all day talking about these things but – do we want to unpack just one or two?

Jen

Yes!

Beate

I think the most intersting but also annoying conversations I have about it, is around the thanking/reporting and what it costs

Everyone is on board with donorlove in theory. But then you see the bill. And you don’t necessarily see the direct income resulting.

And so the inevitable suggestions of not sendign all those letters come up

Which we know is bullshit. But we also struggle to prove it sometimes. I like being challenged on it though, forces me to hone my arguments and prove my case.

Simon

Are we too impatient to see the pay off?

Jen

and/or how are we measuring the payoff?

I just had that same conversation as part of a #donorloveforboards retreat. Stewardship is seen as a cost, but it’s more of a cost of doing business.

John

jesus – are these same people that impatient in real life???? “WHAT – you wont marry me after one date????”

Beate

Well, it’s pretty well established that dates can lead to marriage – it’s common sense for most people.

John

why is there such a disconnect between how we act in real life vs how we act or treat other humans via our work?

Beate

They see that in their own lives, so they don’t need proof

With donorlove, they have no experience of it (usually) and so it isn’t common sense to most people.

John

but in our work – you go out for one date with someone – then NEVER talk to tthem again… and instantly look for someone new to date

lol

Beate

yeah.

John

maybe the anaolgy doesnt work

Beate

I think it does, I just think it isn’t usually flipped on its head like taht.

When it is, people get it, no?

OF course – what the analogy is missing is that after a year, you go back to that first date and demand a new one and don’t understand why they say no🤷🏻‍♀

John

lol. totally.

Jen

i think we can all relate to wanting to be seen and valued and appreciated… and we get pretty tangled up in the details of it and the process and the system, instead of just saying that what we want it to show people that we really see them

Beate

yessss

Plus, I don’t think we should undervalue the value of just doing it BECAUSE IT’S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

We all try to make the world a better place, that goes for the little things too.

John

exactly – not EVERYTHING has to have an instant ROI

Jen

In fact it’s the little things that make the world a better place!

Beate

Simon must be brewing on something cynical and snarky, he hasn’t spoken for five minutes!

John

I was going to say

Simon

In a perfect world not everything has to have an instant ROI, but in reality it usually does

No I’m multitasking and struggling

Beate

Oh. Now I’m the asshole.

Accidental asshole🙄

John

simon – what’s the instant ROI of us having this conversation?

Simon

Also I was thinking about dating and how some people do expect to see you again or want more action and you’re like er no I never want to see you again

Beate

haha

John

lol

Simon

There’s no instant ROI of us having this conversation…but none of us work for someone

We don’t have to report back to a CEO or a board or the media or donors

Beate

what’s your favorite donorlove stories?

Something you’ve done or had done to you?

John

mine always is how my friends at The Redwood – treat me as a donor

cosntantly sending me little love notes about my impact. or they are thinking of me… or sharing a stroy about something else i might care about

Jen

my fave donorlove story was the “first canadian snowfall” video from Rebecca Davies after we helped privately sponsor a refugee family…

Simon

I liked when that charity sent me tea bags

Beate

haha! because they’d researched you?

Simon

But really the best ‘donor love’ I get is from the private sector – buffer and dropchef and Nintendo

Beate

Probably because no one yells at a private company for spending money pleasing their customers, it’s just seen as good service and marketing as opposed to “wasteful spending” and overhead

🙄

Simon

Totally!

John

OUF…

is that really a thing?

Simon

It’s not seen as money taken out of the mouths of those in need. It’s seen as less profit

When in reality it’s probably more profit because it works

Beate

It really is weird how little of the plethora of data and evidence from the private sector is accepted as proof for donorlove!

Jen

And board members drive me nuts, because some are on our boards for their business success and then they join charity boards and recommend the opposite

Beate

Hahah! Yes!

Simon

So true Jen

Beate

Suddenly it’s all tightening belts and cost cutting

Simon

Really weird how the mindset changes

John

🙄

Beate

What happened to innovation and investment??

John

“innovation” our sector’s dirty word

can anything be done about it?

Beate

We can keep screaming about it until people respond? In fairness, I do feel like the pendulum is swinging the right way

it’s no longer just about mass marketing efficiency, but putting the individual back in the picture

Simon

call yourself a ‘social enterprise’ and all our problems are fixed

John

#truth

yes it’s more work. yes you need to be more emotionally invested.

Simon

Do you think it’s swinging the right way? I really have to say…and this is very negative…is I don’t think it’s really changing and I dont think it will ever really change

*mic drop in to bath*

Beate

Haha

yes, but I’m an optimist.

John

well..

A gif of an unimpressed face with Debbie Downer written over it

Jen

I think there are some good changes…

I think boards and leadership are more genuinely open to donorlove and to storytelling… but it’s a long game

Beate

I think (and feel like I see evidence of) that we’ve gone through a decade or two where technology seemed like our saviour where we didn’t have to touch anything and everything was automated. And now I do see personal touches being brought back in more.

Maybe it’s just my bubble, but..

John

i like to think that there are some people around who DO understand this

i know there are.

Beate

We see evidence that’s hard to refute – Hurricane Franki at the UNICEF Italy office and his birthday calls and whatnot increasing retention what was it 2 or 3 times over?

John

it was a 30% increase in the revenue and a 50% increase in Life Time Value

Beate

Keep hammering those numbers, ultimately people must listen. Right? *she said hopefully*

John

AS PER USUAL

this is a massive topic

hard to close out

and for the record

for our clients who just follow the basic framework

we see similiar sorts of growth in their programs

Beate

🙌🏼

John

so

John

as we tend to do

Beate

But I still say fuck valentines day.

John

we like to close out with

Simon

Every day is valentines day when you’re with me

John

a very “FUCK VALENTINES DAY” lobster fact

Beate

Hey, do you want to hear a funny/sad story before the lobster fact?

about valentines day

John

go for it

John

ive got my fact CUE’d UP

Simon

I am here for funny/sad

Jen

#teamfunnysad

Beate

When I was 18, my boyfriend travelled to Morocco to visit his somewhat estranged father around feb. 14th. And he said not to expect a call, because it would be too much hassle to write down my phone number

😂😂

Turns out he was not the love of my life.

John

is that the story?

🧐

Simon

Hahaha

Men are shit

Jen

that’s ice cold

I’ve got a good one too

John

wait JEN!

let me get this fact in

Beate

Jen is going for the story

Jen

There was disappointment in the extended Love family when I wasn’t born on Valentine’s Day, but a few days later… #imagine

Beate

Oh my god. Would they have named you Valentine Love if you had been?

Valentina

John

oh jesus

ANYHOO

Beate

Val for short. It works

😂

John

lobster fiction: that lobsters mate for life ACTUAL lobster fact: Instead of mating for life, a dominant male lobster mates with an entire harem of female lobsters. He mates with each female one at a time, in a series of serial flings that last about two weeks each.

Simon

Like Jen

Jen

Burn

Beate

Wait we’ve already done this fact

😂😂

John

did we?

no

Beate

Yes!

John

did we?

Simon

You cant get enough of lobster fucking facts

John

fuck

im done

Beate

Season 1, ep 6

John

can’t even fucking host properly.

🤦🏻‍♂

Beate

Go do a quick google, we’ll wait

John

sigh.

Simon

Fucking hell John

Jen

2 weeks, a life… there’s a way to connect this to ROI and immediate returns…

Simon

I’d kick you out of the group but I’m no longer an admin

John

how about this: Lobsters eat voraciously after molting, and will often consume their own recently emptied shells. Eating the old shell replenishes lost calcium and hastens the hardening of the new shell.

Simon

Gross

Beate

It’s like a disco in here, road work outside

flashing lights

John

ok.. ok… everybody out. im turning off the lights.

Jan. 14: Where Jen actually brought SLIDES for her turn to host!

Jen

Good Morning Lobsters! Delighted to be the host this week…

John

❤️

Beate

Good evening lobsters!

Simon

I’m here!

Simon wearing a red sweater with a drawn lobster on it

John

😍

Jen

SIMON! Looking fantastic!!

Beate

Loooove the shirt! That’ll be a good pattern for when someone knits you a norwegian sweater

and it doesn’t have a hood!

John

a norweigan lobster sweater? imagine!

Simon

Yeh I’m 40 now so phasing out hoodies

Jen

So anyway

John

LOL

Jen

The wonderful Emma Jenkin suggested a topic of scarcity thinking…

John

great topic!

thank you EMMA! she’s lovely.

Jen

So lovely. And in fact John was immediately enraptured in this idea

Photo of a tweet from Emma Jenkin sayng she'd like to hear our takes on a scarcity mindset. The tweet is circled with the words YES underneath

So, let’s dive in.

Simon

Scarcity thinking…explain it to me like I’m an idiot

Beate

Explain it to me like I’m Norwegian

Jen

Here’s the Agents #nutshell of scarcity vs abundance thinking

on the left, the headline Scarcity thinking. Underneath the bullets -there will never be enough -competes to stay on top -hoards things from others-won't share knowledge -won't offer help to others -resents competition -believes times are tough -believes the pie is shrinking -thinks small and avoids risk -fears change. On the right, the headline Abundance thinking, with the bullets -There will always be more -collaborates to stay on top -generous with others -shares knowledge -Freely offers to hel others -trusts and builds rapport -welcomes copetition -strives to grow -believes the best is yet to come -believes the pie is growing -thinkgs big and embraces risk -takes ownership of change.

Jen

Scarcity: Believing there will never be enough and the pie is shrinking, more for you means less for me. Abundance, believing there will always be more and there’s more pie. More for you doesn’t mean less for me.

Beate

Oh wow they come prepared with slides.

Simon, you and I are NOT ready for this conversation!

Jen

I’m not fucking around here. Take my hosting duties seriously!

John

lol

Jen

So, other than going straight to pie…what does this bring to mind for you lot?

Beate

pie

Jen

🙄

A gif of homer simpson swinging back and forth upside down from the roof, reaching for a pie on the floor but missing

John

i always think of agencies

the idea that

they think they have all the worlds knowledge in their 4 walls – so protective of their “Thinking” and process

Simon

Interesting…thinking back to past bosses I feel like clearly they were one or the other

John

Every old white guy i know was raised on the idea of scarcity

and practiced it in their businesses

(sorry to all of my old white male bosses)

(not really)

Jen

YES! This always makes an appearance when you’re reflecting on leadership. You KNOW that kind of boss who is threatened by ideas, fears change and it totally changes the culture

Beate

Those annoying conference talks where they talk about some amazing concept or idea but refuse to share how or what. Like that’s going to make me hire you to find out? no.

Simon

I feel like w’re all going to be on the same page here as we’re all speak at conferences. And that’s abundance thinking right? Sharing your experience/knowledge is good for business. But others dont like sharing their successes and failures in case people steal

John

exactly

Jen

Agree that we are all abundance people (hence the love)

Beate

yeah. I think that’s such flawed thinking though.

If someone’s inspired by your idea, they won’t be able to just do it right away anyway.

Or, as someone said to me today “They might get our ideas, but they don’t have our heads”

Jen

haha this is funny in translation. I’m sure it sounds better in Norwegian.

Beate

Honestly, it sounds exactly the same in Norwegian

😂

Jen

but i also think that there is a very interesting nuance here around times are tough/best is yet to come

“times are tough” is such an easy way to avoid hard conversations

John

i mean – isnt silo’ing a type of scarcity mindset?

Beate

What do you mean, Jen?

Jen

What I mean is that even me, as an abundance thinker, find myself changing the way I approach certain conversations because I know it will be hard to convince clients.

It drives John nuts, but I admit that I do it. I’m protecting myself.

Beate

I don’t get the connection to abundance/scarcity?

Jen

it’s one of the contrasts in the table — and it’s one that makes me realize that I move to scarcity thinking quickly

Simon

It’s like we’re raised in scarcity thinking and you really have to work to shake that off

Beate

can you give an example?

Jen

Example: sometimes we’ll have a risky-ish idea or approach and I’ll say to John, “but they’ll never go for it, they need a win because it’s almost year-end”

Beate

aaah I see

Jen

That’s “times are tough” thinking

I also want to point out something I shared at the Storytelling Conference. Some of our organizations are set up structurally for scarcity thinking. Time to do the annual report, and we approach it from “Update what you did last year, in under XX words and supply a photo”

That’s easy, not collaborative and not creative. But it’s the process and it works and we aren’t open to new ways to work because it takes longer and is unfamilar

Beate

Haha, I feel attacked I just did that

😂

(though we are doing a whole separate donor one)

Simon

One of the sector’s biggest curses is the 12 month reporting I’d say

Jen

AGREE.

John

i think some of our charity friends use the scarcity mindset when it comes to donors in that – they are OUR donors (rather than – to quote mark phillips – we are actually one of THEIR charities)

Jen

“That would never work here” is also scarcity thinking…

John

or marketing dept arguing that the fundraisers can’t talk to their “people”

Jen

Both totally true. And we say “our donors won’t like that” or “it’s too emotional or sappy for our donors”

John

ugh

i hate this because almost 100% of the time they are wrong or have NO IDEA

i feels some swears coming on

arm waving

Beate

It’s fear though

Jen

Totally fear.

Fear of being judged is at the core of why we can’t be vulnerable…

John

that’s it jen

Beate

The reality is that many charities ARE facing scarcity, it’s not just a mindset, right? They do need to meet that year-end goal, or they’ll have to cut in services. So no wonder we end up in a scarcity mindset

John

as cave men and women – we were taught you better not stand out or be vulnerable…

you’d get stoned

not in a good way

yes but then it is a race to the bottom

isnt it?

Jen

Absolutely true. So it’s really easy to play it safe, keep it 10% cheaper and 1% better in response

John

you’re dead in the water

Simon

Yes fair point Bea…fundraisers and charities are operating in a scarcity mindset. It’s pushed on us by funders and boards a lot of the time

But that’s not going to bring substantial change

Beate

true

John

is my chat on???

Jen

It’s pushed on us from every angle. “And we’re the ones who have to keep the lights on!”

John

i can SEE my messages

Jen

Yes, we can hear you weirdo

Simon

Where’s John gone?

Jen

John?

JOHN?!

John

ah.

Jen

Did you scarcify yourself out of the chat?

John

you guys arent validating me

😭

Beate

wtf is going on

Jen

I dodged your cave man and cave woman comment

🙄

John

sigh

Beate

hahaha

Jen

Ok anyway

Beate

I’m sorry

that was scarce of us

lets abundantly let John know that he is in fact here

John

continue jen

Jen

I was also thinking

Remember at IFC a few years ago…

Headline left Old power values. Headline right New power values. Left Managerialism, institutionalism, representative governance. Right Informal, opt-in decision making, self-organisation, networked governance. Left Exclusivity, competition, authority, resource consolidation. Right Open source collaboration, crowd wisdom, sharing. Right Discretion, confidentiality, separation between private and public spheres. Right Radical transparency. Left Professionalism, specialisation. Right Do-it-ourselves, maker-culture. Right Long-term affiliation and loyalty, less overall participation. Right Short-term, conditional affiliation, more overall participation. Source Jeremy Heimans and Henry Timms.

Made me realize these are very aligned in thinking…

Jeremy did the plenary

Beate

Okay but seriously though:

What do you do, if in fact you are in charge of keeping the lights on.

Simon

Is this why the charity sector is doomed?

Beate

You can’t really afford to take big risks, because yes big risks big rewards but also BIG RISK

What do you do?

Jen

Simon, I think you spelled “humanity” wrong

John

but we often arent talking about big risks

i know we arent

we’re talking about sounding human and shit

if thats a big risk then we really are fucked

Simon

Small tests, little risks

Jen

Yes to small tests, little risks

Beate

We may have wandered off topic into one of Johns usual rants about how people don’t listen to him

Jen

And also yes to staying true to the donors and volunteers who have been with you along the way…and not saying yes to new and shiny things that are mission drifty…

Beate

wait now i’m confused..

didn’t you say that charities don’t want to take big risk because of a scarcity mindset – but now we’re not asking them to take risk..?

John

i didnt say that… i said that they see appearing human as being risky…

Jen

Asking them to take calculated risks

Educated and thoughtful risks

John

lots of nuances

Jen

Any closing thoughts, or time for a lobster fact?

A cricket riding on a tumbleweed all of a sudden…

John

i love lobster facts

Beate

there is an abundance of lobster facts

John

like how unfair it is that they wont swim to norway?

Beate

😒

hit us Jen

Jen

OK!

Did you know…

Simon

Drumlobsterroll

John

LOL

Jen

That lobsters use their claws for different things…?

Lobsters use their claws to catch food and battle predators and other lobsters. The larger of the two claws is called the crusher claw and the smaller claw is called the pincer or cutter claw.

Simon

Crusher!

Jen

So, if we were actually lobsters, john the lefty would be really like crusher!!

John

the crusher claw is tastier too

esp with drawn butter

Simon

Like Jen

John

LOL

Jen

HAHAHAHAHHAHA

now, this comes with a caveat

Beate

the crusher claw comes with a caveat?

Jen

This is from a Maine lobster, here in North America, so Norwegian lobsters and Scottish Lobsters could be wildly different…unless they are all related because they just walk along the ocean floor, as Bea thinks…

John

imagine

Simon

I need to get to Maine

Beate

I feel like you’re all misrepresenting my previous statments on lobsters migrating.

Jen

It’s too funny not to

John

maine is LOVELY

Jen

JOHN: “where is this lobster from, waitress” WAITRESS: “the sea”

Beate

hahah

Simon

lol

John

🧐

Beate

And it wasn’t even a norwegian waitress

Jen

A Norwegian waitress would have NONE of John’s nonsense

John

haha – THAT’s TRUE

Jen

remember that wine bar in Oslo? I thought she was going to cold deck you for asking too many questions

Jen

Ok lobster lovers, let’s wrap this up. Lots of love to you all… SIMON WE SEE YOU IN A FEW DAYS!

SImon

Fuck me John’s restaurant questions

Abundance thinking

John

haha

i can’t help it!

Beate

I’m sad you’re not seeing me 🙁

Simon

Tickets still available!

(Insert link here)

Beate

Ooh, are we official enough that we start plugging stuff now?

John

hell YES

Jen

Yes, when we keep it classy!

Beate

ok everyone come to norway with Jen and me for our cheese-and-legacies-getaway

bye?

Jen

YES! Simon, it’s right around St Patrick’s Day. GTFO of Dublin!

Beate

I was plugging it for other paying people, Jen

🙄

Jen

Them too!

OK, later guys!

XOXO

John

THANKS LOBSTERS!

Bea

byyyeeee

Simon

Byeeeee x

Jan. 07: The Season One Lobster Awards🦞🏆

Simon

Hello! Happy new year

Beate

Happy new decade!

John

Hey! Simon!!!! wow! imagine!

Jen

Happy New Year! New Decade! Imagine!

Simon

Imagine! The year has changed!

John

imagine! but is it really a new decade?

Simon

Time for new year resolutions and reflections

John

doesn that start next year?

Simon

What is time?

Beate

oh fuck off with that shit. Celebrating in 21 is no fun.

John

i do not fucking know

LOL

Simon

Can you believe Lobster Chat has been going across 2 decades?

Beate

hahaha

John

haha

Jen

And it feels like just a moment

Simon

Let’s reflect on the previous decade and give some Golden Lobster awards…shall we?

Jen

yes please!

John

good idea!

Beate

Lets

Simon

I’m so nervous

Jen

I hope I don’t trip and fall on the stage!

Beate

I am ready for the awards!

Beate in a sequinned ball gown taking a selfie in the mirror

Just kidding, I’m on the couch in very comfy pants.

But totally ready for the award show, host Simon!

Lobster Dick of the Decade is easy

The Orange One

Sorry. Did I make it weird?

Simon

Lobster dicks

Right…first category…

John

#drumroll

Simon

Best One-Liner

Are there any particular zingers that stood out for you?

Last year

John

i had a couple

Simon

Doesnt have to be funny I guess

Jen

You’re nominating yourself already John?

Beate

lol

John

NO!

“we asked mr rupt to join us but he was 30% more expensive for some reason”

That’s SIMON!!

Simon

Oh wow…I’m thrilled to be nominated

Beate

We might need to buy lobsterchat.com because that is what I just typed to get to our own chatcast™ to remind myself of the oneliners.

John

this from clay was pretty good too: ancient scriptures – “and lo, the spirit of the giving came upon them and gandalf said unto them, send forth the voluminous emails and the counting of the gifts shall be double…”

Simon

The bit that proper made me laugh was when Mark Phillips was typing

And then you all hit him with sass

Jen

I was going to say Mark’s one liners were actually all novels

John

“we should have tested mark on his keystroke count before we asked him to join us”

serious oversight

Beate

hahah

that is a good line

Simon

Wow John really is nominating himself

But that’s also my nomination

Jen

This one was good

By Simon: Jesus imagine a Norwegian focus group

Norwegian focus group has no questions. It’s just someone shouting how right they are.

John

LOL

Simon

I think it’s safe to say we’re all winners

John

and this from jen: IDGAF what channel youre using but try to be real, open and authentic and you raise more money and be happier

that’s a winner

Beate

I feel like Clay had many under-valued comments that I only noticed when typing it all out. Like his Jesus Christ Superstar-joke in the Dan Pallotta-episode

“Simon: Do you love him? Clay: I don’t know how to love him”

Simon

Clay probably the funniest guest lobster?

Jen

Clay and his witty musical retorts

Simon

He brought his A-game

Jen

Yes! Clay funniest guest lobster IMO

Simon

Clay-game

John

clay was the funniest

hands down

Simon

Well done Clay

Clay?

Jen

And fell for the kick out twice

Simon

Clay’s ejection probably the best ejection too

John

LOL

Simon

Maybe just because it was the first

Jen

Mark’s was pretty fucking good too

Simon

Clay is cleaning up at the Golden Lobsters. Like Titanic

YES! Mark’s ejection

John

Mark is still probably waiting for jen to spill the branding beans

Beate

Ok do a winner anouncement, awards chief!

Simon

Oh yeh sorry

The winners are:

Best Lobster One-liner: “we should have tested mark on his keystroke count before we asked him to join us” – John

Best Guest Lobster One-liner: “I don’t know how to love him” – Clay

John

WOOT WOOT!

Topless man basking in glory of camera flashes

Beate

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Jen

It was an honour to just be nominated

Simon

Funniest Guest Lobster: Clay

Best Ejection: Mark

Beate

wow this went by fast

Simon

Who was the most significant guest lobster?

Not necessarily funny

Beate

I mean, Mark had so much gold

Jen

Ms Rupt Now

Simon

Ms Rupt was pretty impactful

John

Ms Rupt NOW

that was an important doscussion

obvi

Beate

Well okay, I am outvoted and for good reason and I accept it.

Simon

Should we overlook her because she’s a woman and this is an awards ceremony?

John

yes

HAHAHAHJA

NO!!!!!!!

Beate

oooof

Jen

We should give it to John who helped with her tech needs so wins the prize.

Simon

OK we’ll give it to Ms Rupt, but honourable mention to Mark

Really all our guests were pretty great

John

agreed.

Simon

John wins best tech support

John

lol

Simon

Wow this is so efficient because there are no acceptance speeches

Beate

Shall we remind new readers what ms. Rupt is winning for?

Jen

Ms Rupt Now came on as an anonymous lobster to talk about sexual harassment in the sector.

John

insert post here

👇🏼

Simon

Biggest Light Bulb Moment?

John

i had one

Simon

Penultimate category

Beate

Once again, I nominate mark

John

“no one complains about good fundraising.”

Simon

YES!

John

that was simon i think

Jen

Don’t we all say that? Over and over again?

John

yes

we all do

Simon

But I say it with panache

Mark talking about branding in private sector vs charity sector was mind blowing for me

Jen

Lesley with “start somewhere” is the light bulb that keeps on lighting

John

yah mark had this GEM: in our sector, a brand needs to say we depend on you

Simon

Oh yeh I love Start Somewhere

John

Beate

Was just looking for the quote, this one:

Screenshot of earlier conversation. Mark says In the commercial sector, a brand is a guarantee. A guarantee to wash clothes whiter or make your car go faster or to make you smell better. It says you can depend on us. Whereas in our sector, a brand needs to say we depend on you.

Simon

Oh god yes those two

Shall we make Lesley and Mark share it?

They get it alternative days for the next year

John

YES!

Jen

Diplomacy in award ceremonies! Imagine!

Simon

So they have to meet each other every day in 2020 to hand it over

Beate

We can do that – or we make up a new category for one of them? Best advice?

Simon

Oh yeh thats a good idea

Best Advice: Lesley – Start Somewhere

Jen

John

Simon

Lobster Lightbulb: Mark for that branding shit

Beate

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Simon

OK guys we are coming to the last category

The big one

Beate

Djis, that was fast

Beate

It’s Lobster Of The Year 2019

Beate

Oh dear – we have to vote on ourselves??

Simon

Maybe we should have done anonymous votes

Jen

You mean between the 4 of us? Lobster fight?

John

what?

Simon

Yes!

Beate

Isn’t that just going to bve a four way split, we’re not all that humble😂

Simon

I’m going to go ahead and nominate Beate

Beate

ooh, twist!

😍

Simon

Because essentially she launched this

John

Well – jen and beate have partaken in every one

Jen

Well the female lobsters will drag each other down and the males will try to escape

Beate

hahahahha

we’re going to end up voting for one of the boys, Jen😂

John

and i would have to go with Beate for the same reason

Simon

I think I would win the people’s vote but we’ll never know

Jen

Agree. Beate. I will NOT hold you down, despite lobster law

Simon

I think that’s a winner then

Beate…congratulations

John

BUT I WILL HAPPILY go up on stage and do all the taking and hold her award too

Simon

Lobster of the Year 2019

Speech?

John

and she’ll get played off the moment she starts to talk

*talking*

Simon

*music plays*

I think she must have left

Awkward

Jen

She’s drinking and sobbing in thanks ladies room

Beate

omg, this is so unexepected, what an honour! I would like to thank my fellow lobsters without whom this would not have been possible. Thank you guys for going along with a whimsical idea an committing an afternoon a week for the rest of your lives. I love you all

💕

Simon

Oh

John

haha

Simon

Wow beautiful speech

After party?

Jen

After party!

Beate

after party!

Simon

👯‍♂

👯‍♀🕺💃🏿

Beate

We still have ten minutes left. This has never happened before!

Simon

Yeh sorry I was too efficient

Usually I leave parties early anyway

John

efficency is good isnt it Beate?

thats like a staple norwiegan thing

Beate

It is the Norwegian spirit

John

exactly

Simon

Norwegian award ceremony: “But we are all perfect?”

John

stop fucking about and get to the point

Beate

Anyone have a new years resolution they want to share?

Simon

I’m going to start wearing jumpers

Beate

Ditching the hoodies??

Jen

That’s a sweater right?

Beate

Is this 40 year old Simon coming out?

Simon

Yes!

Still some hoodies but they are perishing

John

it’s a full body hoodie isnt it?

onesie?

Simon

Like a hoody without a hood

Jen

That’s a jumpsuit John

Beate

hahaha!

John

JFC

Beate

My god. Knitted jumpers and khaki pants. I never would have seen it coming.

Simon

No khaki

Beate

another decade?

Simon

I need a norwehian trad jumper

Beate

I will get you one

😘

I won’t knit you one.

Simon

Noooo too expensive

John

my intention for this year is to see more of your beautiful people IRL

more hijinks

Jen

I’m feeling this one. John and I are blessed to see each other a lot… but we miss you both desperately IRL

John

more laughs

more adventures

❤ ❤ ❤

Beate

It is a bit impractical to have some of ones best friends on a different continent

💔

Jen

So impractical!

Beate

Where will we see each other this yera?

John

all together?

Beate

Jen and I will see each other in March in Norway

Jen

Beate

Do we not have anything planned were we’ll all be?

IFC?

John

jen, simon and i will see each other in a few weeks

ifc will just be me with you guys

unless jen changes her mind

Simon

Ok im gonna sneak out of this party. Have to pick up H

Beate

ok that was abrupt

John

thanks for hosting

Jen

Ghosting your own party. I love Simon

Simon

Also no interesting celebs here

John

not as good as ricky though

not enough roasting

Beate

a surprising lack of roasting honestly

Jumper-Simon is less sharp

Jen

Simon, before you go…. I need to tell you something…

Simon

Yeh sorry i was too rushed

*Jen Love removed Simon Scriver from the chat*

Beate

hahahahaha

John

LOL

NO WARNING

LOL

Dec. 17: where donor insight hero Lesley almost is an hour late but then inspires everyone deeply instead❤

*Beate added Lesley Pinder to the chat*

Lesley

See you all in an hour!

Cartoon lobster flexing muscles

Beate

You mean…in three minutes?

😂

Lesley

Um.

I thought it was 5.30 my time!

Simon

lol off to our usual start

Jen

Fucking timezones. Such a calamity. Every. Time.

John

ha

Lesley

Is it on three mins!? That’s cool too. I’ll go find somewhere to sit!

I thought I was being so good popping in an hour before so you knew I was on it

Just logging in to WhatsApp web 🙂

Beate

clever guest this one§

Lesley

I’m in!

LETS DO THIS

Beate

Ok – **chat is on**

Hello lobsters and guest lobster!

Jen

Hellllloooooo!

Lesley

Hiya pals!

John

welcome Lesley!

Lesley

I am honoured to be here

Jen

Thank you for joining us!

Simon

Lesley. Welcome.

Beate

This is the politest intro we’ve ever had

Lesley

I was about to ask if I can swear…

Beate

Fuck yes

John

fuck yes

Jen

Fuckin right you can

Beate

hahaha

Lesley

FUCK YEAH!

Ahem. Sorry mum.

Simon

Is your mum a fan of Lobster Chat?

Lesley

She will be I’m sure.

Jen

Imagine! “Lesley, what are you doing with these brutes?”

Beate

okay so enough chit chat. I invited lesley so we could talk about donor insights!

wanna tell the chatcast what it is you do?

John

i TM’d “chatcast” Beate so now you owe me $5 every time you use it

Lesley

Aye! So, I’m at Head of Supporter Experience at the British Red Cross.

Our team’s job is to help ensure our supporters have a great experience. In a nutshell!

Beate

Very Cool Title

Lesley

It is a bit. I blush whenever I say it. I feel very lucky.

Simon

Start by letting them out of the nutshell

Lesley

Oh simon.

Simon

Downhill from here

Beate

🙄

Simon

But still…that must be one of the most impressive fundraising titles in the UK

Jen

I actually think it’s a lovely title, and much better than some kind of officer or senior adviser which makes me think i might get arrested

Lesley

Oh cripes, I guess! It definitely feels like a huge honour and opportunity. We have the chance to do something really great I think. Which is both exciting and terrifying!

Simon

Do people forget you’re a fundraiser?

Lesley

I think sometimes people might think supporter experience isn’t about raising money as we don’t directly fundraise. But it’s EVERYTHING about raising money

And I always refer to myself as a fundraiser.

Beate

🙌🏼

John

AMEN to that

Jen

Sing it sister

Beate

Lesley had my favourite slide of the whole IFC this year

Slide from presentation with headline That Henry Ford Quote: If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, A faster horse!. Followed by explanation, Ford's customers didn't say that they wanted a safer horse or a more comfortable horse. They said the wanted a faster horse. They were perfectly clear about what they wanted, speed

Beate

I HATE THAT QUOTE!!!

Lesley

Ha!!

Beate

So much shit is justified using that quote

Your take on it was music to my ears

Simon

And I always think that if you asked the horses they would have said ‘cars’

Lesley

I hear the phrase “People say one thing and do the opposite” ALL the time to justify not ever speaking to supporters or doing research. And that quote is used all the time to back it up

Beate

That’s the difference between “insight” – using what you learn to form some kind of knowledge and “well they said so so I must blindly abide by it” 🙄

Jen

“Supporter Experience” anchors the conversation around the donor/volunteer/helper, not around the business end of the charity

Simon

Conversation is a key word there right? People say something intially but theres always more to it. Not the opposite. Just more

Jen

And then there’s the “well how do I measure if this works if I haven’t involved a statistician and analyst”

Lesley

When I think of insight, for me it’s about understanding what you want to find out and then working out the best way to find it out.

Sometimes your data will tell you all you need to know if it’s about how donors currently behave.

But if you want to understand how people feel about something or why they behave, you probably need to speak to them.

Jen

Insight! Love it.

Lesley

And if you want to know if something works, then you need to test it!

Insight comes from many places, not just 200 page decks from research agencies

Beate

How many donors would you say you speak to on a regular basis?

You or your team, I guess

Lesley

Not as many as I’d like!!

Jen

GOOD ANSWER

Lesley

Every month we have some sort of supporter conversations happening I guess in different forms…

Last month we used an online panel to deep dive in to how supporters felt about our 2030 vision for supporter egagement. It was three days of online discussion and activities. FASCINATING

That was 24 people giving deep emotional response.

Jen

😭

John

i’d be curious to know what are some recent insights that really surprised you and your team Lesley?

like something that caught you off guard

Lesley

That piece we just did….I confess, i wondered how much our supporters would engage in a 10 year conceptual vision but they COMPLETELY got it.

And explained it back to use using such clear, concise language that connected to how it made them feel.

Jen

Wow. Goes to show you that if you are authentic and open in the way you ask people to dig in and dive in, they will!

Beate

So what is your “2030 vision for supporter engagement”?

Jen

This chatcast(TM) is restoring my faith in humanity!

John

haha

Lesley

Ha, well, that bad boy I can’t share yet as it’s part of our whole organisational ten year strategy that hasn’t quite yet been signed off yet!

But, the fact that our supporters are built in to it is so exciting, and they’ve had the chance to feed back

Jen

Ahhh the cold hand of “approvals”. Fair point.

Simon

Does much get revised/rewritten based on what supporters say?

Like how much should charities let supporters guide them?

/Tell them what to do

(Also feel like there’s a Labour party comparison we should bring up here as you’re the only British lobster)

Lesley

Our approach is to use supporter insight to guide the experience not dictate it. We tend not to ask thing like “what do you want” but more “what have you felt before” “How do you want to feel”

Jen Love

#allthefeels

John

asking donors emotional questions… imagine….

Simon

“How do you want to feel” is very heavy

Lesley

Ha, yes, there are ways of exploring that without sounding like you’re interrogating people!

I would never ask a donor “How many times do you want us to email you” or “Do you want to be thanked”.

Simon

Well that’s an interesting discussion…people often say we should be asking donors how many times they want to hear from us, which I’m not a fan of. Would love to hear your thoughts

Jen

“Without interrogating” says the Norwegian!

John

LOL

Beate

What? the Norwegian did not say that

Simon

Jesus imagine a Norwegian focus group

Jen

That’s what I was thinking

John

lol

Gif of Ashton Kutcher yelling BURN into the camera

Beate

The norwegian ONLY interrogates people.

I demand to know!

Actually, we’re all super evasive and no one wants to speak to a group so it takes forever

Simon

Norwegian focus group has no questions. It’s just someone shouting how right they are.

Jen

GOLD! Waiting for L’s brilliant answer but this is amazing.

Beate

Tss, we don’t need to shout it, we know we are so we can just softly say it.

Lesley

I’d love to get you to do some insight interviews, Beate. You’d be brilliant!

Beate

Thank you for being the nice one in this group

Lesley

So, to answer your question Simon, here is how i’d approach it….

Jen

Even in the survey work we do we are always careful about asking questions we don’t want answers to. (Also helpful for parenting teenagers)

Lesley

We found out what people cared about and what inspired them. Then designed an email journey for them. Our hunch was that if the content was relevant to them and interesting, then the frequency wouldn’t matter so much.

But the only way to test that really is to send the emails! And ideally a/b test frequency

And ask for feedback in the moment, not months after!

Jen

BING POT!

Simon

*preach giff*

Lesley

How do you feel about the emails we’re sending you?

Not, how many do you think you might want

Beate

Can you say a little about hwhat kind of experiences you have for your donors today? I like that this is coming from a big charity – so often we hear “we have too many supporters to do that” from the larger ones.

Simon

I’d actually say the bigger ones seem to have just as many excuses. We have too many supporters

Lesley

Or can you remember that thing you did 12 months ago amongst all the other things you’ve done…

Well we do have our Supporter Celebration Week which we piloted this year.

That had the dual purpose of championing our supporters internally but also we had the chance to thank some amazing people.

Beate

ooh, nice

Lesley

We reaching 110.000 supporters by email, and 900 with hand written cards and 1000 or so with phone calls

So no, not all our donors. But better than none!!

Simon

Yeh that was something you said at Fundraising Everywhere that stuck…

Start somewhere

John

Jen

❤ ❤

Beate

💕💞💕

Simon

💚🍑😳

Beate

Sigh.

Lesley

I think for small orgs, or any fundraisers actually, people think you need research and insight specialists to do insight

In big orgs that means fundraisers delegate understanding supporters to researchers

And in small orgs they think they can’t do it at all

NOPE

We can ALL speak to supporters and ask good questions of them.

Simon

Like the resources scale up with the size

Jen

What a jolt of inspiration you are. Mama-to-Lesley you should be SO proud!

Beate

What’s your favourite question to ask a donor?

Simon

Oh good question

Lesley

Oh man.

So, a great one is “Can you tell me a time that a charity has delighted you.”

It tells you SO MUCH

And is often really depressing.

Jen

Oh my goddess that must be devastating…

Lesley

That’s why i was so excited by this role. I’ve heard SO MANY donors talk about how disappointed they are in different charities

It’s not good enough. And i couldn’t ever understand why they didn’t listen

Jen

And so many of us as fundraisers AND donors know and see and feel the epic disconnect

Lesley

It’s not in the least bit suprising to me that people are disollusioned

Jen

(another Brexit segue? or North American politics?)

Simon

Why is it so easy to recognise from the outside but feels so hard for insiders to change?

Lesley

Oh man Simon, that’s a topic for a whole other lobster chat!

Jen

When the Chatcast(TM) sorts that out, we’re on fire

Lesley

Also, my fave question is “Can you tell me how you feel about the Red Cross”

*insert own charity*

Beate

One thing is the financial side of all this. But on a human level, it just makes everything so much more worth it when you know you’ve made a difference to someone’s day/life ❤ That’s why we’re all fundraisers, to change the world. Small scale and big.

Lesley

And that’s why people give. Quite aside from ensuring you can give better experiences and do better fundraising, speaking to supporters is SO INSPIRING

It makes me feel better about the world.

Or should I say, They make me feel better about the world.

John

Jen

😍

Lesley

If fundraisers don’t ever speak to their supporters they are missing out SO HARD

Simon

Heck yes

It’s seen as such a junior role sometimes…to talk to donors

Lesley

Next year we’re going to test ‘back to the floor’ activities. So every fundraiser has to meet or speak to supporters throughout the year.

Simon

Like Undercover Boss

Beate

I love that

Lesley

It’s simple, but if you’re disconnected from your audience you won’t fundraise as well. Facts.

Simon

Wasn’t there a charity that did Undercover Boss I think? So fucking useful

Beate

My favourite activity as a fundraiser when I worked for the cancer society was whenever we had events and I could be on the streets with a collection tin and talk to people. Loved it.

Lesley

PREACH!

Get on the phone with supporter care, volunteer at an event for another team, do research calls for us. That kind of shiz

Beate

Well guys. We could do this forever.

But time flies

It’s been half an hour already!

Simon

wtf?

Lesley

Crikey!

Simon

I thought these were an hour

Beate

They’ve never been…

Jen

Norwegians…so abrupt

Lesley

I’m enjoying this insight in to your cultural idiosyncracies

Simon

Focus group has mixed answers on how long these usually are

John

lol

Lesley

Ha. Simon, how does that make you feel?

Beate

We’ll do Part Two when lesley has her Managerial Approval™ to share the 2030 plan!

Jen

And no one can hear our adorable accents!

Beate

Lobster fact time:

Simon

I accidentally private messaged Lesley a reply like a creep

Lesley

Weirdo.

Oh man, i meant to bring a Scottish Lobster fact. Sorry lobsters

Beate

once every 50 million lobsters, one is born that is half female – half male. And then they look like this!

Half blue, half brown lobster

Jen

that’s a nightmare come to life

Simon

Like you Jen

Beate

hahahha

John

HAHAHAAH

Jen

(bowing) that was amazing

John

they have lobsters in scotland?

Simon

It’s ok according to Beate all lobsters are same nationality

Jen

Oh good fucking lord. Scottish Lobsters. IMAGINE!

Lesley

As long as you don’t call Scottish lobsters english…

Beate

John would lose it if he found out about scottish lobsters

Simon

Scottish lobsters staying in the EU

Lesley

Well.

This was an experience! Thanks for having me

Simon

This has been helpful Lesley…and totes not enough time

Jen

👜

Lesley

I tried to say a lot. Sorry for slow responses!

Beate

I found something special for you though! I know how you love bicycles and now lobsters…

aaaannnndddd….

Look at those!

Screenshot from google images showing lobsters on a bike

Lesley

BA!

hahahaha

That is niche.

Simon

Lesley Prawnder

Lesley

Shit, why can’t i think of a seafood pun for Scriver?

I hate me right now

*Beate removed Lesley Pinder from the chat*